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alene View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jul 23 2009 at 12:57am
Gerson also has a FAQ page...Look below...Gerson may advocate that your mother have the tumour removed... and/or radiation...and sometimes chemo...(Your mom's tumour is grade 3 - aggressive/fast-moving - using Gerson's terms)
 
In addition their testimonial page for breast cancer...lists 3 cases..2 of which clearly indicate that the patient had the tumour removed..
 
All good reasons to contact them...and discuss your mother's case further.
 
Page from their FAQ below:
Can I do the therapy and Chemo or Radiation therapy at the same time?

There are a few instances where chemotherapy is of limited benefit. These include cases of Acute Leukemia, Testicular cancer, and fast-moving cancers where it is beneficial to quickly, if temporarily, stop the cancer so that a non-toxic intervention can be used. Under these circumstances, the Gerson Physicians occasionally recommend using both the full intensive Gerson therapy and chemotherapy together, if the patient starts the Gerson protocol first and is carefully monitored by a doctor. This is not a frequent occurrence with our patients, but it is an option for some. While we do not recommend it except in rare, specific circumstances, if a patient insists of doing chemotherapy concurrently with the Gerson Therapy, there is no reason why it cannot be done. In such a case we recommend that the Gerson Therapy be started prior to chemotherapy, and that the patient be monitored by an experienced Gerson Therapy doctor. Radiation therapy is often effective for relief of bone pain or to shrink a tumor to facilitate surgical removal. While it does have some negative effects, radiation, used judiciously, can be an appropriate addition to the Gerson Therapy.



Edited by alene - Jul 23 2009 at 8:04am
DX 5/21/2008 TN 8cm TAC
Mast 12/08
Extensive Residual Lymphatic Invasion
Inop node clavicle
68 Rads
Stage IIIc
Recur 11/09 Her2+
Surgery 68 RADS
4/10 Biopsy Skin Mets TN
28 RADS
Stage IV
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alene View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 23 2009 at 12:29am
Hi mysunshine
 
Here's a link to the Gerson Institute website..specifically the page at finding clinics, practitioners and support groups..
 
 
They also have a telephone information service below:
Gerson Client Service is available from 9 A.M. to 5 P.M. (PST) M-F. (619) 685-5353 or info@gerson.org. U.S. residents can contact us by calling toll free on 888-4-GERSON.
 
 
The American Cancer Society has deemed the Gerson diet as Questionable - Here's what I found from the ACS...

Gerson Method

Proponents of the Gerson diet claim that cancer can be cured only if toxins are eliminated from the body. They recommend "detoxification" with frequent coffee enemas and a low-sodium diet that includes more than a gallon a day of juices made from fruits, vegetables, and raw calf's liver. This method was developed by Max Gerson, a German-born physician who emigrated to the United States in 1936 and practiced in New York City until his death in 1959. Gerson therapy is still available at Hospital Meridien in Tijuana, Mexico and, since February 1997, at the Gerson Healing Center in Sedona, Arizona.

Gerson therapy is still actively promoted by his daughter, Charlotte Gerson, through lectures, talk show appearances, and publications of the Gerson Institute in Bonita, California. Gerson protocols have included liver extract injections, ozone enemas, "live cell therapy," thyroid tablets, royal jelly capsules, linseed oil, castor oil enemas, clay packs, laetrile, and vaccines made from influenza virus and killed Staphylococcus aureus bacteria.

In 1947, the NCI reviewed ten cases selected by Dr. Gerson and found his report unconvincing. That same year, a committee appointed by the New York County Medical Society reviewed records of 86 patients, examined ten patients, and found no evidence that the Gerson method had value in treating cancer. An NCI analysis of Dr. Gerson's book A Cancer Therapy: Results of Fifty Cases concluded in 1959 that most of the cases failed to meet the criteria (such as histologic verification of cancer) for proper evaluation of a cancer case [16]. A recent review of the Gerson treatment rationale concluded: (a) the "poisons" Gerson claimed to be present in processed foods have never been identified, (b) frequent coffee enemas have never been shown to mobilize and remove poisons from the liver and intestines of cancer patients, (c) there is no evidence that any such poisons are related to the onset of cancer, (d) there is no evidence that a "healing" inflammatory reaction exists that can seek out and kill cancer cells [17].

Between 1980 and 1986 at least 13 patients treated with Gerson therapy were admitted to San Diego area hospitals with Campylobacter fetus sepsis attributable to the liver injections [18]. None of the patients was cancer-free, and one died of his malignancy within a week. Five were comatose due to low serum sodium levels, presumably as a result of the "no sodium" Gerson dietary regimen. As a result, Gerson personnel modified their techniques for handling raw liver products and biologicals. However, the Gerson approach still has considerable potential for harm. Deaths also have been attributed to the coffee enemas administered at the Tijuana clinic.

Charlotte Gerson claims that treatment at the clinic has produced high cure rates for many cancers. In 1986, however, investigators learned that patients were not monitored after they left the facility [19]. Although clinic personnel later said they would follow their patients systematically, there is no published evidence that they have done so. A naturopath who visited the Gerson Clinic in 1983 was able to track 21 patients over a 5-year period (or until death) through annual letters or phone calls. At the 5-year mark, only one was still alive (but not cancer-free); the rest had succumbed to their cancer [20].

 
The link to the full document is here:
 
Remember this just falls under..knowledge is power..the more you know...the more you can tell your mom to watch out for these problems with the regimen. 
 
Lots of hugs
Alene
 


Edited by alene - Jul 23 2009 at 12:42am
DX 5/21/2008 TN 8cm TAC
Mast 12/08
Extensive Residual Lymphatic Invasion
Inop node clavicle
68 Rads
Stage IIIc
Recur 11/09 Her2+
Surgery 68 RADS
4/10 Biopsy Skin Mets TN
28 RADS
Stage IV
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vickyann View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vickyann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2009 at 7:30pm
Crying lets the pain out so you can breathe....
Hang in there sunshine...
Look how many of us are still here.....
You might want to show your mom your posts so she reads your concern and know how you are feeling..... It could open up communication..
We all care.....
Vickyann
Dx Christmas/07
Stage2 Grade 3
no nodule braca neg
lung nodule no growth
TAC x 6 no rad
finished chemo June 08 reconstruction 12/09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mysunshine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2009 at 6:10am
true, thank you Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mainsailset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2009 at 5:57am
Mysunshine, what a road you have to travel, I think this is perhaps one of life's most difficult challenges, to love a parent enough to help out but respect them enough to stand by them even when they are choosing a different path of treatment than medical wisdom tells us is best.
 
Because cancer invades and then stomps on our own ability to walk through life most of us are continually struggling to retrieve some semblance of our 'old lives', to regain control and hold the reins of our fate. I totally understand your mother's stance, what she is doing takes alot of courage. Every aspect of the battle against cancer takes courage and strength no matter which path one chooses. So I applaud her courage.
 
As many here have already encouraged, knowledge is really the best power to grease the wheels of success, you can never have enough, but it is exhausting on a daily basis. A friend of mine was diagnosed the same day as me, he chose to go on the diet and regime your mom is on. It became pretty much a religion with him, he was so dedicated. After 3 months he was exhausted, had lost a great deal of weight and his brother talked him into Cancer Care. He agreed because of their approach which included not just the chemo, radiation but the whole picture of spiritual, and alternative medicine, massage and just plain caring. He is getting better, we feel he now has a chance.
 
My point is that when one goes in to a doctor's office, sometimes it is just so clinical that a patient can feel that they have already lost the battle. One only has to go to the CarynRose thread and read how her caregivers have gone out of their way to give her well rounded, complex and innovative care.
 
You are in such a tough position but I wouldn't be surprised if you mom comes to you one day soon for advice on something different. You'll be ready, you already are.
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mysunshine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2009 at 5:04am
hugs , thank youHug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colleen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2009 at 5:02am
Sunshine it is ok 2 NOT take the chemo.  Most on this site do not agree with me, but I said no.  I feel I just have 2 say that as there are many advocates for chemo as the solution to the problem.  I admire your mother for being her own case study.  I send her well wishes!  Om shanti!
Colleen
DIAX 4/08 age 49 Stage 1C, 1.8 cm, IDC, Grade 3 Lumpect 5/08
rads 33 end 8/08
no lymph node 0/4 BRCA 1/2neg
no chemo
< stress
> nutrition
9.11 N.E.D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mysunshine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2009 at 4:02am
I will let my mom know about the Dr's in California. My mom has a biopsy and I apologize for not posting the exact email of the size of the tumors she emailed me I guess it got erased although I'm not sure how....? But yes I beleive she did have a scan I dont knoe if it that specific one; she has heart problems and they tested her heart to make sure she would be able to take the chemo even though she still will never do it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2009 at 2:54am

Hi Sunshine:

You are right it is very very confusing...welcome to the world of "breast cancer treatment"...I feel like I had to graduate a "crash" medical school course...just to understand what was happening to me...
 
Am I right in understanding you  that your mother  has not had a "mastectomy" or a "lumpectomy"...no surgery yet?
 
Does "biopsy" sound familiar?...Did she have a biopsy in say a "surgeon's office?
 
Is your mother against testing like a PET scan?
(Explanation - painless outpatient scan - Looks at the whole body...would let your mother really know the extent of her cancer...It may have spread beyond her breast..as it did in mine)
 


Edited by alene - Jul 22 2009 at 3:20am
DX 5/21/2008 TN 8cm TAC
Mast 12/08
Extensive Residual Lymphatic Invasion
Inop node clavicle
68 Rads
Stage IIIc
Recur 11/09 Her2+
Surgery 68 RADS
4/10 Biopsy Skin Mets TN
28 RADS
Stage IV
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kikidan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 21 2009 at 4:46pm
Hi Sunshine,
 
I actually spent some time with Charlotte Gerson when she came to my chiropractic college in the mid-90's.  She is Max Gerson's daughter and taught some of the protocol. 
 
After spending the weekend with her. I was convinced that I would do her father's protocol before doing chemo, radiation, etc.  In fact, during her lectures, she asked if anyone in the audience had been to the Gerson clinic. (2 years in a row she gave lectures at the college which was located in the middle of nowhere in upstate NY and we advertised the lectures to the general public).  Each year, several survivors came to the lectures.
 
However, flash forward 12 years to my own diagnosis 6/2008.  I did NOT do her protocol.  It is such a specific protocol that needs to be followed to the absolute finest detail.  Even as far as the juicer that is necessary.  You have to have a specific type of motor, etc.  Without following every SINGLE, minute detail, you cannot expect the protocol to work.  Therefore, I knew that i would not be able to follow it.
 
If your Mom is insisting on using Gerson's protocol, I IMPLORE you, with every cell of my being, that you get your mother out to California to see Gerson's doctors.  Nobody should pick up her texts and try to implement this program without professionals that have been trained by Charlotte and her doctors.  Your mother needs a great deal of support to implement this program.
 
Otherwise, all of us would do well to follow Charlotte's advice: no sugar, low protein, vegetables and fruits, rest, coffee enemas (also done by a very strict protocol), etc.
 
She has a website with a link to a doctor that has a Gerson hospital in California.  PM me if you cannot find it.  I can get you the phone number.  Good Luck to your Mom.....Kiki
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mysunshine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 20 2009 at 4:38am
thank you for the break down in the reports. Im not sure of which of that is right it's super confusing. But she has not had a lumpectomy or mammogram. This is so true for this site, it is so helpful!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trip2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2009 at 2:20pm
Thanks Vickyann,
 
There is information regarding the Gersen diet in the top post of the News/Resource section put out by Johns Hopkins.
Stage 2 2003
Stage 1 2007
BRCA 1+
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vickyann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2009 at 12:54pm
rom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sunshine this is something i found for you..hope it helps

Max Gerson (18 October 18818 March 1959) was a German physician who developed the Gerson Therapy, an alternative dietary therapy which he claimed could cure cancer and most chronic, degenerative diseases. Gerson described his approach in the book A Cancer Therapy: Results of 50 Cases. However, when Gerson's claims were independently evaluated by the National Cancer Institute, it was found that Gerson's records lacked the basic information necessary to systematically evaluate his claims, and the patients who were "cured" by his treatment were also receiving standard, effective medical treatment simultaneously.[1] The therapy is considered scientifically unsupported and potentially hazardous,[2][3] and has been blamed for the deaths of patients who substituted it for standard medical care.[4]
Vickyann
Dx Christmas/07
Stage2 Grade 3
no nodule braca neg
lung nodule no growth
TAC x 6 no rad
finished chemo June 08 reconstruction 12/09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2009 at 1:29am

Dear Mysunshine

Sorry it took so long to get back to you... It took a while to come up with the T1c....most of us...just list T1..
 
I can only assume that your mother got this information from a pathology report...after a lumpectomy or a mastectomy?
 
I'll try to decipher some of the code for you
 
You wrote:
Tn Bc aggressive, grade 3, stage 111a,
 
Let's take it in chunks:
 
Tn Bc aggressive: Triple Negative Breast cancer which is aggressive
 
Grade 3: High Grade (this is one time when getting high grades...isn't good)  High Grade cancers are faster growing and more likely to spread...About 66% of us Triple Negative gals get High Grades..
 
You wrote  T1, c, N-1, MO. Lets try this T1c N1 M0 (as in zero)
 
T1c: Tumor more than 1.0 cm but not more than 2.0 cm in greatest dimension (about 3/4 inches or maybe close to 1 inch - not good with metrics)
N1:  Cancer has spread to 1 to 3 axillary (underarm) lymph node(s)-most likely
and/or tiny amounts of cancer are found in internal mammary lymph nodes (those near the breast bone) on sentinel lymph node biopsy.
M0: No distant metastasis
 
It looks like I skipped stage..but actually the above information is what determines the stage...
 
You wrote Stage IIIa however as you can see below..
Stage IIA: T0, N1, M0 / T1, N1, M0 / T2, N0, M0 falls into Stage IIA
 
However back to my original assumption...this info is from a pathology report...The pathologist hasn't seen your mother.. just her cancer..
 
Her doctor has seen her..and may have changed her N1 to N3
BECAUSE one of the below statements is true...
 
Stage IIIC: T0-4, N3, M0: The tumor is any size (or can't be found), and one of the following applies:
Cancer has spread to 10 or more axillary lymph nodes. -Not Likely..the pathologist would have caught this one...
Cancer has spread to the lymph nodes under the clavicle (collar bone).
Cancer has spread to the lymph nodes above the clavicle.
Cancer involves axillary lymph nodes and has enlarged the internal mammary lymph nodes.
Cancer has spread to 4 or more axillary lymph nodes, and tiny amounts of cancer are found in internal mammary lymph nodes on sentinel lymph node biopsy.  -Not Likely..the pathologist would have caught this one too...
The cancer hasn't spread to distant sites or M0
 
Could your mom be Stage IIIa.?..sure but we've got something wrong in the details then...like either tumor size (T1c)...or Node involvment(N1)...the best way to know is look at the path report.
 
So to Summarize:
According to the stats you listed your mom is a Stage IIA however
Your mother should know from her discussions with her doctor if her cancer has spread to under her clavicle/supraclavicular or mammary node area which would make her indeed a Stage 3c...It is possible that she is a stage IIIa..but that means we've got a wrong tumor size or node involvment.

A lot to digest I know...remember knowledge is power...the only way to know if a treatment is working...is to know where your mother is now.and to follow up regularly with diagnostic tests..

Hugs and prayers
Alene
 
and Billie thank you so much for your kind thoughts...I too am so glad that we have this forum...it's truly a life vest in some pretty stormy seas.
 


Edited by alene - Jul 18 2009 at 9:44pm
DX 5/21/2008 TN 8cm TAC
Mast 12/08
Extensive Residual Lymphatic Invasion
Inop node clavicle
68 Rads
Stage IIIc
Recur 11/09 Her2+
Surgery 68 RADS
4/10 Biopsy Skin Mets TN
28 RADS
Stage IV
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 17 2009 at 6:01pm
  
 
 
     Oh and Alene,isn't this a wonderful place where you can come and just poor your heart out.This forum is priceless and is a blessing for so so many of us.So so many that really in truly care about others and what kind of a day they are having.
 
           Lots and lots of Huggggsss to all   Billie
 
    
Billie posting for sis Betty/67/caucasion female/diagnosed 2-27-08/gradeIII/7mm/invasive ductal carcinoma/T N /clear margins/node neg/4 X's taxotere-cytoxan/36 rads/7-08 PET/CT double image/no cancer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 17 2009 at 5:39pm
Hi Mysunshine,
   
       I am so in hopes that the size of her tumor is the size of the member that was practically insisting that she be told to do chemo even though her oncologist and a board of oncologist were telling her that hers was so small that they did not see any reason that she should do the chemo.I cannot remember the members name at this time ,but I am sure that there are other members that remember her also.
      Wouldn't that be a blessing!!!Wow.
 
      And Alene,You are such a strong and beatiful woman to have tried all those different things to help your mom and yet you are still having to deal with so much difficulties for your self.But you know what!It is in my life time that I can accept or even walk away from something if I know in my heart that I have given and done everything that I could possibly think of to do before I gave up.And lady it sounds as if you did everything that you could possibly think to do for your mother.You are so so so right.As the old saying goes,You can lead your horse to water,but YOU cannot make him drink.
Billie posting for sis Betty/67/caucasion female/diagnosed 2-27-08/gradeIII/7mm/invasive ductal carcinoma/T N /clear margins/node neg/4 X's taxotere-cytoxan/36 rads/7-08 PET/CT double image/no cancer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mysunshine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 17 2009 at 12:36pm
I don't have a copy of her report, just what she emailed me  which was Tn Bc aggressive, grade 3, stage 111a, T1, c, N-1, MO. She has emailed me the tumor size, I am still looking for the email that had the diamater sizes in them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trip2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 17 2009 at 12:33pm
Sunshine, do you have a copy of your mother's pathology report?  If not then you can get one and use that to look online, there are several reliable websites that will show you what everything means.
Stage 2 2003
Stage 1 2007
BRCA 1+
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colleen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 17 2009 at 12:21pm
Keep us posted on ur mom susnshine.  I would very much like to hear of her progress.  Peace.
Colleen
DIAX 4/08 age 49 Stage 1C, 1.8 cm, IDC, Grade 3 Lumpect 5/08
rads 33 end 8/08
no lymph node 0/4 BRCA 1/2neg
no chemo
< stress
> nutrition
9.11 N.E.D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mysunshine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 17 2009 at 7:24am
wow! Alene thank you. Sorry to hear about your mom, that was hard I know. The stats are the ones she gave, she did say it was aggressive. I don't understand what any of this means , Ive tried to do research on it but come up short handed, I will check my email for the last visit, she said that the tumor were larger I will copy & paste the results.                  
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