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SURVIVAL ODDS IMPROVED AFTER 2 TO 3 YEARS MARK???

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chaya View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 17 2009 at 12:47pm
Nancy - the graphs in that link confuse me. What exactly is "Absence of lymphocytic infiltration?"

Common sense makes it sound like no positive lymph nodes, but they said that means poorer prognosis? That does not make sense ... and scares me because my lymph nodes were clear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nancy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 17 2009 at 1:09pm
Chaya,
 
I have been searching and I believe that statement refers to within the tumor. Let me get back to you, but perhaps someone else will respond before I post.
Nancy
 
 
one...
 
 
two..read the abstract..this has to mean within the tumor.
 
 
definition of lymphocytic infiltration
 
 
definition of lymphocytic
 
 
lymphocytes
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Nancy - Mar 17 2009 at 1:33pm
Nancy
DD Lori dx TNBC June 13,2007
Lumpectomy due to incorrect dx of a cyst
mastectomy July 6 2007
chemo ACT all 3 every 3 weeks 6 tx Aug-Nov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 17 2009 at 1:36pm
thanks!!! I feel much better now!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trip2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 17 2009 at 1:51pm
I too have been trying to find answers to this question.
 
I also was looking into interval breast cancer and found this article
 
Check this out from above article "8] Retrospective review studies on interpretive performance indicate that 15% to 30% of interval cancers appeared on the original screening mammogram initially interpreted as negative,[5-8] which means that the remaining 70% to 85% are generally more aggressive tumors. The sensitivity of screening mammography in the United States is 72.4% to 80.1%[9,10]; thus, approximately 20% to 28% of breast cancers are interval cancers.
 
Also found it interesting they are still hanging onto the 5 yr mark overall it seems. Even though they are saying our peak is 3 yrs and it begins to descent we are still in high risk according to this article for 5 yrs.
 
At one point they remark there is a weak relationship betwern node status and tumor size and at another juncture they said these are risk factors.
 
I have posted studies saying nodes or no nodes, size of tumor, do not matter with this disease.  They just cannot make up their minds.
 
Does anyone else feel like we are going in circles here?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nancy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 17 2009 at 2:11pm
Pam,
 
Know what I read? ACS has stock in the mammography industry. Gee isn't that a coincidence...them saying that women do not find their "lumps" and is not an effective screening tool. The new thermography or the one that I posted in the resource forum, is supposed to be the best, however, the insurance companies do not want to pay for that?
 
I have always contended that squishing or sqeezing of my breasts is just inhumane. Mammograms are only 40% accurate. I think it depends on who writes these articles. Seems unjust, but it is the same with all reporting.
 
Your posting of articles in regards to the size of tumors of TNBC is right on the money. Tiny tumors are sometimes more aggressive, and have to have the same aggressive treatment as large tumors.
 
They don't have to make up their minds...they just publish the articles, and the belief is that many of the studies are flawed. In fact some are being questioned as to the validity of their findings due to conflict of interests.
Nancy
 
 
 


Edited by Nancy - Mar 17 2009 at 4:59pm
Nancy
DD Lori dx TNBC June 13,2007
Lumpectomy due to incorrect dx of a cyst
mastectomy July 6 2007
chemo ACT all 3 every 3 weeks 6 tx Aug-Nov
28 rads ended Jan 2008
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NINASUZIE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 17 2009 at 2:37pm
Oh gosh, yes!  I have been reading research on the spread of cancer for TN when a bilateral mastectomy is done....I actually read one dr. response that said no woman has ever died from breast cancer in the breast...it's only if it goes outside somewhere in the body...
Circles?  I think figure 8s!  Why would they advise us strongly to consider survival rates being better w/bilateral if they are saying this in the next breath???
Suzie
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Dx: 1/09 Metaplastic TN IDC/3.5CM/DCIS/1.0;4/09 L mastectomy;6-11/09 Cytoxan/Taxotere X6;BRACA-; Recurrance 11/10 bone mets broke arm;Lung mets;rads X15; chemo/parp tbd 1/11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nancy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 17 2009 at 2:46pm
Suzie,
 
Where is that article? The truth is just what you wrote. No woman ever died of Bc...just metastsis. Put the link in a poat and I will post it in the news forum. They better start getting this right...these are lives here that are on the line.
Nancy
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DD Lori dx TNBC June 13,2007
Lumpectomy due to incorrect dx of a cyst
mastectomy July 6 2007
chemo ACT all 3 every 3 weeks 6 tx Aug-Nov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 18 2009 at 4:23pm
Suzie,

I've always thought that survival rates are better with bi lateral because it almost completely eliminates the risk of a second primary .  Some women are advised that a bilateral is not necessary (less aggressive cancers, ER+, or single tumor) but it depends on the status.  I was multi-focal in the right breast, lumpy but benign on the left.  Surgeon, plastic surgeon and oncologist all agreed that bilateral was the way to go for me.  I have to say, it gives me comfort to know I don't have to worry fighting a second primary.  I figure, if it grew in one breast, clearly I'm susceptible and I'm not going to leave any nesting place for something else to go awry and start growing.

Cathy


Cathy, Winter Park FL
Dx 12/05
3 tumors, triple negative, 6+CM, 0/13 nodes, stage 2b
Double mast
AC+T, dose dense
radiation
NED!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nancy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 18 2009 at 4:29pm
Cathy,
 
I have always heard the same thing. Breast cancer grows in breasts. If there is no breast tissue...it cannot grow. One is definitely susceptible to another primary.
 
Suzie said that the article was on breastcancer.org in the metaplastic/triple negative section, but I cannot find it. I searched for over 45 minutes. Maybe it is an article somewhere on the site, but I sure don't know where.
Hugs,
Nancy
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DD Lori dx TNBC June 13,2007
Lumpectomy due to incorrect dx of a cyst
mastectomy July 6 2007
chemo ACT all 3 every 3 weeks 6 tx Aug-Nov
28 rads ended Jan 2008
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NINASUZIE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 18 2009 at 6:47pm
It is in the body of Q and A under metaplastic/triple negative answered by nationwide experts from some of the centers we know treat and research breast cancer.  I was concerned that he would make the comment about distant/mat being the villian not being in context with the wisdom of a woman deciding on removing as much breast tissue as she thinks with her team is prudent for her recovery. It is similiar to my conversation with my doc on the decision for my bilateral.  He defined another primary and reoccurance, not the root of the problem-the cancer showing up in breast tissue and reducing my risk as much as possible.
I agree with Nancy.  These experts need to be responsible to us for what they say.  So, I guess we have to "check out " the information with each other in the meantime to know as much as possible.  Wink
Suzie
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Dx: 1/09 Metaplastic TN IDC/3.5CM/DCIS/1.0;4/09 L mastectomy;6-11/09 Cytoxan/Taxotere X6;BRACA-; Recurrance 11/10 bone mets broke arm;Lung mets;rads X15; chemo/parp tbd 1/11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nancy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 18 2009 at 7:31pm
Suzie,
 
Ok...I give up. I have searched in the Q&A and there are over 2000! yikes!
I typed in metaplastic/triple negative...and nothing. Once you bring it up again, just right click right on your mouse and copy and paste the link here in a post. Make sure you hit the spacer bar so you get a "hot" link. I am really interested as to whom/who made that statement.
 
I swear...the more articles we read the more confused we become. Dammit! Why can't they agree? Over 44,000 women will die this year alone...not from breast cancer...from metastisis. Breast cancer is not the killer...the medical profession is not agreeing as to what will stop this beast. What are we...experiments? If the treatments work...great...fine...if not... as Connie says...they will just design another product with another damn pink ribbon to sell something! I am dreading October! Bloody October.
 
Hugs,
Nancy
Nancy
DD Lori dx TNBC June 13,2007
Lumpectomy due to incorrect dx of a cyst
mastectomy July 6 2007
chemo ACT all 3 every 3 weeks 6 tx Aug-Nov
28 rads ended Jan 2008
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trip2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 19 2009 at 9:59am

excuse



Edited by trip2 - Mar 19 2009 at 10:06am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trip2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 19 2009 at 9:59am
I am getting really confused here and not sure what is being said but will re-read the posts.
 
If you notice when you read these articles, studies, Q & A's, whatever, they put alot of time into explaining what tri neg is, ok we know that, a simpler explanation would do.  Or do we?  Do they?  Is anybody really looking for what the heck it really is??
Then when they get to the heart of what we want to learn there is little to read, more studies need to be done, honest to pete!
 
They do not know.  They are throwing everything at us but the stew pot or that is my feelings anyway.  Look at the disaray and confusion in the studies etc., what does that tell us?
 
Personally at this juncture I feel like I've been treated like a lab rat.
 
Odd sort of position to be put in when a person is fighting for their life and there is no raft out there to pull them in?
 
To the new girls, do not let my pratter bother you, you will on occasion see us get frustrated once in awhile but they are getting better at treating triple negs, remember that!


Edited by trip2 - Mar 19 2009 at 10:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diamond2Wheels Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 19 2009 at 12:05pm

Hi All,

don't no whats going on here...2--3 year mark?  whats a mark?  Are things to improve after 2-3 years?  lol  I'm one that is skeptical about that one. 
I'm goin back n2 chemo..Doxil AGAIN...this thing just does NOT want to gtf out of my body!  My left breast is totally embedded with the bad fungus and it seems to want to poke itself out of the last surgical site!  a bit ouchy...Oh joy.  I'm trying not to take it on (inside me) however, the whole thing is annoying 2 me N would like 2 have it all gone.
Doc's want 2 shrink it with chemo first...um, is that a CURE or a Shrinkage drug????  So toxic.  I'm not sure I want to do that.  What alternatives do I have since there isn't a doctor who will operate. 
I do no that RAW FOOD diet works somewhat but it is not the immediate answer.  I'm so perplexed and stressed over this that I'm not certain what is the answer...ANYONE?
Hugs of Love,
Tia
Tia-dx 2/14/2006
5/4/2010-L Mastectomy & Pectoral muscle removed & lymph nodes - had
Gemzar, A/C, Taxotere, Navelbine, Xeloda, Doxil On PARP clinical trial at moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trip2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 19 2009 at 1:28pm
Tia,
 
 
This must be my day to be confused as I am not quite clear what is happening to you.  Is it that you've had a recurrence and they want to do neoadjuvant chemotherapy before surgery if necessary?  What is your diagnosis?
 
I'm very sorry this is happening to you and can understand your alarm at doing chemo again.
I am not one to help you with the alternative things but I hope that you find the answers you need for whatever you decide to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nancy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 19 2009 at 1:34pm
Tia,
 
Hi there sweeie...long time no see.Big%20smile From what you are writing, it sounds as though you and Netterz have/had much in common. She finally got them to remove both breasts just this week. Long time coming believe me. Her breast got hard as a rock, Shrunk up to almost nothing, she had pain into her neck, down her back...you name the pain....she sure had it. She sent us pictures, and it made you want to get the doctors and lead them to the OR in shackles.
 
 
WTH are they waiting for...as Pam said are they using you all for lab rats? Why will they not operate? If your leg was this bad, would they not amputate?
 
You should check out her thread....actually one started for her....prayers for netterz. I think it is on the talk forum.
Hugs,
Nancy
 
 


Edited by Nancy - Mar 19 2009 at 1:36pm
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DD Lori dx TNBC June 13,2007
Lumpectomy due to incorrect dx of a cyst
mastectomy July 6 2007
chemo ACT all 3 every 3 weeks 6 tx Aug-Nov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nancy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 19 2009 at 2:57pm
Suzie,
 
I typed this long post and poof! It was gone. Here goes again.
 
I now see what you were saying...TN's do benefit from a bilteral. No woman ever dies of breast cancer....they die from metastisis to other parts of the body...lung, brain. The first sentence of your post led me to believe they were saying that TN's got a recurrence WITH A BILATERAL.
 
What the article states is that they can never get zero cells, there is always a chance that "it" will come back somewhere else. They recommend a bilateral to lessen the chance of recurrence or another primary in the other breast.
 
Enough before this goes poof!
 
Hugs,
Nancy
 
forgot to include the linkBig%20smile the answer to which Suzie was referring  is almost to the end
 


Edited by Nancy - Mar 19 2009 at 3:13pm
Nancy
DD Lori dx TNBC June 13,2007
Lumpectomy due to incorrect dx of a cyst
mastectomy July 6 2007
chemo ACT all 3 every 3 weeks 6 tx Aug-Nov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diamond2Wheels Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 08 2009 at 3:17pm
Hi There!!!
Missed everyone!
 
I'm on Doxil - once every month, check up 2 weeks after.  So far its not affecting me whatsoever! i'VE DECIDED NO MORE STERIODS!!!! Told the Doc I've already gained 50 lbs and I am turning into a beast!  so, we're doing without it next treatment.  a little vomit  never hurt anyone so far, and besides nothing fits me, not even my peacoat or my motorcycle chaps!  Those are an expensive proposition.  Had to purchase another pair since my other two do not fit above my knees!!!  geesh! ( Y ) <- fat butt.
 
 
Don't know if this sort of treatment will work!? I sure hope so.  I haven't lost hair yet...yet...yes, its suppose to dwindle away! Uggh, again!  It'll be worth it if this shrinks the cancer completely!  Originally they wanted to perform a latisimus dorsi flap.  OUCH!  Thats a hairy operation of 9 hours for the first operation and 3 more small ones after that!  That is IF I am allowed to have RECONSTRUCTIVE surgery!
 
I'm not sure what will happen...hopes for the best, whatever that is.  My insurance will NOT pay for reconstructive surgery...so I'm sorta upset over that!   They tell me I have to find someone IN Network...and will not give me an 'IN for OUT' so I can have reconstructive surgery!  (I've a few words for BCBSCensored)  their IN Network surgeons are pathetic!  I haven't enough skin for just a mast...so, that is WHY they are shrinking my tumors...been since August 08...and I have developed 3 in my quest to get reconstructive after a mast...IMAGINE THAT ONE!!
If you have any suggestions, I'm open to them.
 
Meanwhile, What does it mean Survival Odds improved after 2 to 3 years Mark??????????????????????????
 
Everyone is different and everyones cancer is different...we all have similarities...Cancer is Cancer.  Ours just grows faster!  Luckily, it is in the breast...we can cut it out!  Dead 
 
What do these people get when they go to EUROPE for treatment????  They seem to return healthy and cancer free!
 
Ok, I'm out of here...
HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE...eat your greens!
 
HUGS OF LOVEHug
TIA
Tia-dx 2/14/2006
5/4/2010-L Mastectomy & Pectoral muscle removed & lymph nodes - had
Gemzar, A/C, Taxotere, Navelbine, Xeloda, Doxil On PARP clinical trial at moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sibu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 08 2009 at 5:20pm
Hey Tia,

Good to "see" you again!!

Glad to see that your big butt made the first paragraph of your post, whereas the lighter stuff like cancer is in paragraphs 3-5. lol 

The two to three year mark thing refers to improved chances for tns if you make it to the 2 or 3 year mark without mets. If we make it to 5 years, we are said to be home free, so to speak. Whereas other bcs have a more steady chance of recurrence throughout their lifetimes. That's my paraphrase--there are articles out there to this effect. I don't know how they'd classify YOU and your world record recurrence rate; you are one in a million. So why don't you go ahead and start counting from first dx.

As far as other countries, we have several women on this board from Europe, Japan, Australia, etc. Most of their treatments seem to me to be similar to ours, although many still do the FEC instead of TAC. And one reported that they send you away to a spa-like recovery center after treatment! I'm moving there.

What you may be hearing about are European researchers considered far advanced to the type of research they do here. Dr. Hamer is one to Google. www.healingcancernaturally.com/hamer.html . He does cutting edge research on blood markers not done in the U.S., among other things.

My sister also worked with sanoviv.com in Mexico, who offer a full range of cutting edge stuff in combination with leading docs in San Diego.

Have you read the book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell? It's not cancer related, but opens with a big study of a community of Italian immigrants who have virtually no heart disease. After running all the usual medical, genetic, dietary, etc. tests, they determined that they were healthier not due to any of that, but because they enjoyed close-knit personal relationships, sense of community, etc. 

Nobody really knows.

Once you open somebody up, cancer can spread like wildfire. Especially if there are multiple locations/mets. Just my personal anectodal "knowledge"--surely some out there would disagree. This may be why they don't want to cut.

Much Hog-ridin', hair-in-the-wind love your way, my dear.

Donna
Donna, age 42
Dx IDC 12/06, 5/18 Nodes + BRCA1+
Double mast. 1/07
Chemo 6 X TAC 6/07, rads 10/07
Hyst./Recon. 12/07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sharon C Herber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 09 2009 at 5:18am
Hi all--I'm chipping in on the pollyanna side "time to cure" question. Yes, I know we are never "cured", but there is a point at which the odds of its coming back/metastasizing dwindle to the insignificant. And, yes, I get that a tiny statistical chance is totally significant if you fall into that category. That said, my onc, whom I called Dr. Depresso in the beginning, tells me, and has been telling me from the beginning, that she has never seen a tn come back more than 4 yrs after dx. She's been in practice 25yrs +. Now you might say, how many tns has she seen? They weren't even calling it that until about 3 yrs ago. Well, one of the things that impressed me about her when I was choosing an onc 4 yrs ago was that she called the hormone status from the mammograms and scans, before the pathology report came in. The docs at UM were sitting around proposing a clinical trial, assuming I was hormone positive, since I was 60. She called me and said, "you cannot fool around with this. It is a bad, aggressive cancer. Looking at your scans I am almost positive it is est. and prog. neg and probably her neu pos." Well she got 2 out 3 right, and even though they weren't using the TN label then, she could spot the beast for what it was.

So that's my two cents. I didn't worry daily about getting breast cancer before I got it, when my chances were much higher of a primary they are now of a recurrence. Don't get me wrong, there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about it. I have total sympathy about recurrence anxiety and still have my share of it, but I do believe the odds are very much on my side now. And I think that with the broader recognition of TN's deadly threat that's occurring now, thanks to this forum and the work of many dedicated researchers, and the resulting recognition of the need for aggressive treatment of TN, at whatever stage it first presents, the odds are much better for all of you that are starting out. It's a lousy dx, but hit hard at the beginning it can be survived.

keep fighting, never surrender!

hugs,

Sharon
dx 03/05 multi focal with lymph involvement, stage II/III 4 dense dose A/C, 4 taxol, bil mast 8/05, 38 rads, NED
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