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mainsailset
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Posted: Mar 16 2016 at 9:38am |
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Hi, be sure they check/monitor your thyroid while they're figuring this out as the two may end up connected.
My sis developed Addison's after/during chemo when she developed mets. Unfortunately her first set of doctors didn't figure it out until it was too late for her. She developed a severe case of nausea and threw up constantly. When I finally was able to get her in to see my onc he discovered the Addisons but by then her treatments had become so messed up she really lost ground.
I really don't think it's uncommon, just unrecognized. With so many people complaining of the common side effect of fatigue during and after chemo my personal opinion is that the adrenal fatigue gets lumped into the common version of chemo fatigue and so isn't pursued.
I know when I looked back, after hearing her dx and looking it up online, that I had many of the same symptoms.
I've never been BRCA tested nor was she, our original doctors said no to the test.
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dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor
3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear
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Tulips
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Posted: Mar 16 2016 at 9:59am |
Hi Romnessprite, Sorry to hear about the adrenal problems! I hope your blood pressure is back where it should be, and that they figure out how to help you asap. Sounds like Mainsail has some great advice. Also sorry you got stuck with some residual, too, although of course we'll all be fine. Are you done with treatment, or discussing any further treatment? Good luck with whatever you plan!! Tulips
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Dx April 2015 IDC TN 2.2 cm, Grade 3, Chemo started May 2015: Taxol/Carbo then AC, Lx with SNB Nov 2015, 33 Rad Dec 2015-Feb 2016. 6 months Capecitabine starting March 2016
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Posted: Mar 16 2016 at 10:49am |
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Thank you. I think you are right mainsail the addisons does get overlooked. I will see my oncologist next week and see what he has to say. I still have radiation treatment to complete and will start that in April sometime. None of my Docs have said anything about treatments after radiation. I will ask about it at my next appointment. I really appreciate all the info you all have shared on this site. That gives me possabilities for treatment. They also havnt talked to me about follow up screenings. Im just taking it one day at a time. Right now Im so glad that they have pain medicine after surgery. I was part of a study the anesthisiologist did for surgery. He did a Thoracic spinal block and it worked great for pain. I was still asleep but didnt need the heavy stuff. It made recovery a lot better. I felt nothing for several days except some rib pain. So anyone out there who is going in for mastectomy ask who your anasthesia doc is and talk to them about using the spinal. It makes recovery so much better.
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mainsailset
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Posted: Mar 16 2016 at 12:43pm |
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I hadn't heard about the spinal and that is such good information, thank you for sharing.
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dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor
3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear
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Bethie
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Posted: Mar 16 2016 at 1:04pm |
So my appointment went so-so. My doctor is hard to read and it very medically scientific. She is a very "standard of care" type of doctor and if it was up to her she would say I am all done with treatment. She is only offering more chemo due to my insistence. What she is willing to do for me is either carboplatin once a week for 12 weeks or Xeloda (she didn't get into doses but said it was 18-24 weeks of treatment. I can tell she is more pro carbo because at least there are studies. In fact there is a new trial coming out testing TN women in an adjuvant setting with patients getting either Xeloda, carbo or nothing. They must feel these 2 meds are worth looking into used in this setting! At first the study was going to just be carboplatin but now they have added Xeloda. They are comparing how BRCA+ and - react.
I am VERY confused about which chemo to go with!!! I would actually love a second opinion but trying to figure out who it should be with. I am in San Diego but I am willing to fly wherever to get this. I will be in NY the beginning of August to see my son and was thinking about seeing if Dr Traina might see me. If you could go to anyone any where for the top TNBC doctor, who would all of you see?
I see that all of you are using mm when referring to your tumor sizes. My report reads cm which scares the heck out of me since that makes mine much larger than all of yours. My residual tumor was 1.4cm and started at 2.5cm. I was a stage 2A. If my calculations are correct then my 1.4cm would be 14mm!!! Yikes!
I would love all of your input on my doctor choice and my chemo choice...shoot it all at me...I am ready!
Big thank you to Tulips for her communication and expertise!
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Tulips
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Posted: Mar 16 2016 at 3:53pm |
Hi Bethie,
I think it sounds like it WAS a really good appointment!
First, I have to jump in about the size thing. I feel badly about the way we've been talking about it--of course we are all comparing! But truthfully, I don't think we can compare! Because I'm pretty sure the relevance of the residual cancer is way more complex than just the dimensions. Someone might have a bigger tumor left over, but the percent cellularity might be teensy-tiny (I don't totally understand this, but I think it means that within that tumor, there are only a few viable cancer cells), and someone else could have a smaller tumor with a high percentage cellularity. Maybe there are other biological features that matter, too. It may be important the percentage of shrinkage we had, or maybe just the overall remaining size is the more important thing, I'm not sure, but I just assume it is complex business and that none of us should be overly worried but we should be appropriately advocating for the best treatment, whatever that is. And that's the million dollar question ;-).
I am SO thrilled they've already set up a study to compare carbo, xeloda, and no treatment in the adjuvant setting! Wish it was started years ago, but this will be so useful to patients in the future. And it definitely would seem that the study designers believe all 3 of these options are reasonable choices at this point. I think all of us who are dealing with residual TNBC right now need to come back here for a reunion in 5 years to review the results! I bet some of us are going to end up pursuing each of those 3 options, and although I know we'll ALL be here to compare notes, it will be fun to see which horse wins ;-)
As far as 2nd opinions, I think some of the famous names that come up for TNBC are Lisa Carey at UNC Chapel Hill, Tiffany Traina at MSK, and Eric Winer at Dana Farber (I'm sure there are others). They seem to be the ones I see quoted in the press a lot. However, I have no idea if that means they are the best. Ultimately, I think you just want a caring oncologist who is up on the latest research (and who has time to spend with you….perhaps the most famous ones are a bit rushed???). The problem appears to be that the research isn't crystal clear, so there probably isn't one magic answer. I'm not sure who you should go see, but I can't wait to hear what they have to say!
One thing I would do if I were you is to comb through the studies on carboplatin, paying extra attention to the effect it had on BRCA negative women. I'm pretty sure the results are not nearly as impressive as for BRCA+ women, but I'm not sure of to what extent--I think it's worth putting some time into really evaluating that. That may (or may not!) help you with your decision.
Good luck with your decision and 2nd opinion!
And Romnessprite, happy healing and good luck with radiation!
Tulips
Edited by Tulips - Mar 16 2016 at 4:10pm
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Dx April 2015 IDC TN 2.2 cm, Grade 3, Chemo started May 2015: Taxol/Carbo then AC, Lx with SNB Nov 2015, 33 Rad Dec 2015-Feb 2016. 6 months Capecitabine starting March 2016
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mainsailset
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Posted: Mar 16 2016 at 9:53pm |
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Hi Bethie, I sure know what you mean about looking at the size of tumors. Take a look at my signature and check out the size of my tumor. That's not a typo! You can PM our resident super advocate Steve or Sage Advocate to ask if he has suggestions in the Cali area for a 2nd opinion. He's very knowledgeable and a kind helpmate to boot!
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dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor
3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear
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Posted: Mar 17 2016 at 12:44am |
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Hi Betthie im glad ypu asked everyone to give advice. Im listening in as well. Ive read a lot of studies but the jury is still out. Right now im leaning towards carboplatin but Im BRCA+ and apparently it works better than for the brca negative people. But i havnt had a chance to talk to my onc about it much. I have to finish recovering from the mastectomy reconstruction. By th way any of you who had reconstruction do you ever get feeling back in the skin? I have mo feeling in the my skin that is covering the implants. Right now im glad for that becauae if i did im sure it would hurt.
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StephandBrandon
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Posted: Mar 17 2016 at 7:39pm |
Hi All, I just contacted by oncologist and it sounds like she's not interested in having me do this as I am 6 months since surgery. What do you ladies think about her response? Should I push more? I feel like it's never too late! But then again I may just be reacting out of fear of recurrence. Here was her response: "This is a really good question. The new data on
capecitabine in this situation is definitely encouraging. However, I don't think
I would recommend it at this point for you. This treatment has been studied in
the immediate postoperative period. I don't think it really makes sense to start
it at this point for you since you have been done with treatment for 6 months.
For these types of treatment we think that the big benefit is when they are
given in close time frame to the rest of your treatment. I'm happy to discuss
this with you further if you would like. Let me know if you would like me to
call you."
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DX on 1/27/15, Stage 3 TNBC, A/C every 2 weeks for 8 weeks, Taxol/Carbo every week for 12 weeks, Carbo every 3rd
Local lymphnode recurrence 3/3/17; Keytruda Trial 3/29/17
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StephandBrandon
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Posted: Mar 17 2016 at 8:00pm |
Just a couple of more data points: - Mastectomy was 7/16/15 - Radiation ended on 10/16/15 Thanks in advance for your advice/guidance. Steph
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DX on 1/27/15, Stage 3 TNBC, A/C every 2 weeks for 8 weeks, Taxol/Carbo every week for 12 weeks, Carbo every 3rd
Local lymphnode recurrence 3/3/17; Keytruda Trial 3/29/17
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Postive3negative
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Posted: Mar 17 2016 at 8:09pm |
Hi Tulips, I also had residual cancer in my remaining tumour after chemo (originally four tumours but chemo knocked out three). I was also told I'd probably have a complete response only to be disappointed by my pathology (why do they get out hopes up!!!).
I also had DCIS under the remaining tumour (previously undetected) but my surgeon said not to worry about it as she had removed tissue all the way to the chest wall and radiation would 'clean up' any remaining cells.
Although scans are no longer routine here (I'm in Australia) I asked for scans at twelve months and they picked up some calcification and the original marker clip inserted in between the tumours prior to chemo. Shock! How could my surgeon have clear margins if the clip was still in there and it had been in the centre of the tumours???
My surgeon decided to take another slice, saying it was probably just calcification and 'worst case scenario it's DCIS'. The pathology came back 3mm active invasive triple neg. (WHY do they get our hopes up!!!) and a mastectomy was recommended.
At first they thought I had a mutated recurrence which, as you know, is about the worst news you can get. After the shock it occurred to me to ask for the mitotic rate and it was the same as the original tumours. This makes it highly likely that the 'recurrence' was original cancer, left behind from the original breast conserving surgery.
My own view of all this is that it was a happy accident. Clearly the cancer that I had was highly resistant to treatment and highly likely to recur. The way events unfolded, I ended up having the best possible treatment for my condition (mastectomy) in the best possible sequence (the two prior surgeries meant my mastectomy pathology was free of cancer.)
I had my three year scans last week. I am completely free of cancer. I've done everything they told me to do; I've lost weight, taken up yoga, eat really well, rarely drink alcohol and manage my stress. I've written a blog about the entire experience here:
https://positive3neg.wordpress.com
In answer to your question about treatment I haven't had any additional chemo (and back when I was treated the carboplatin was still under trial so I wasn't offered it). I had FEC and paclitaxol followed by conserving surgery and radiation, followed by further conserving surgery, followed by mastectomy without reconstruction.
I did ask my oncologist about a platinum based chemo but she told me there's no evidence that giving it to me when I don't have active cancer will do me any good and she was concerned that, given how well I am, knocking out my immune system might actually give the cancer a leg up. (What!) She's holding the platinum chemo in reserve and will consider it if I ever get cancer again.
As you would already know, being cancer free at my three year anniversary means my odds just got a whole lot better.
Please know that the most important thing about statistics is that you're dealing with averages, not individuals. Included in that group are all the people that DON'T take their doctors' advice, don't improve their health and don't take responsibility for their life. Every single thing you do improves your personal odds.
The other thing I like to keep in mind is that the statistics for five year survival rates are always five years old. Research and treatment have improved dramatically in the last five years so the statistics are ALWAYS out of date. Your personal survival odds are much better than the historical figures.
Lots of us survive triple negative breast cancer. Even those of us that don't get a complete response to chemotherapy. There is no upper limit to how well you can be.
Best of luck with it all. I hope this helps. Meg < ="cosymantecnisbfw" co="cs" id="SILOBFWID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;">
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Posted: Mar 17 2016 at 11:41pm |
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Hi meg. Why were you even considering more treatment?.What brought this to your attention again? Sounds like you are pretty much out of the woods. After being disease free for three years i thought the danger was pretty much over?
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Postive3negative
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Posted: Mar 17 2016 at 11:56pm |
Hi there, I was just responding to the request from Tulips about whether anyone else had been in a similar situation. She specifically asked about additional treatment, Meg < ="cosymantecnisbfw" co="cs" id="SILOBFWID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;">
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Posted: Mar 18 2016 at 12:32am |
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Oh sorry I should have paid closer attention. I gues i will claim Chemo Brain made me mixed up. The last study about adding carboplatin to the AC plus T was very encouraging. To go from having 25% of all the people having recurrence down to 9% is fantastic. It sounds like they if further studies prove it out,this may become the new standard of care. I will talk to my oncologist about all of this on March 28th. I wasnt even thinking about getting more chemo untill i read this discussion. I had residual tumor also but i dont know if im up to going through more sickness and stuff. I still have radiation to do any way. Thats my next hurdle. I guess im sick and tired of being sick and tired. If I can help other people by participating in a study im all for it. I want to give back to this community and to future generations if i can. But if its just for me. Ive raised my kids pretty much and thpugh i would love to see them marry and have kids of their own. I think that 75% is a good chance of not having recurrence. I want to feel good again and make some more good memmories with my family.😁 its a tough decision.
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Postive3negative
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Posted: Mar 19 2016 at 6:33pm |
No worries at all. <3 < ="cosymantecnisbfw" co="cs" id="SILOBFWID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;">
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Tulips
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Posted: Mar 20 2016 at 1:54pm |
Wow, what stories! Mainsail, that was an impressive tumor! It's so amazing and inspiring to know you are doing so well after such a BEAST ;-). Thanks for all of your encouraging posts--I know I'm just one of many who appreciate it. Similarly, Positive3Neg, what an experience you had! I love the "happy accident" attitude, and congrats on the clean 3 year scans. That's fantastic.
StephandBrandon, that's a really interesting question. I haven't read anything that really addresses timing of adjuvant interventions. She may be right that the odds of treatment helping at this point have gone down, or she may not be--I guess I'd want to (politely) ask her what she is basing that on. There's no obvious logical reason to me that it would be less effective a few months later, but perhaps there have been studies showing this? I mean, if it turns out that we do have some rogue cancer cells milling around our bodies, and if something like Xeloda (or another treatment) could have the power to kill those cells, I would think undergoing that treatment anytime before those cells have a chance to build a home and reach critical mass as metastases would be helpful. Perhaps starting sooner might make the job easier (i.e. there would be fewer cells around to knock out). Obviously, we are all hoping that there simply aren't any rogue cells. I guess I just don't have any advice except to ask questions until you are comfortable. Meanwhile, hopefully you are just getting more comfortable the further you get out away from treatment.
Just an update…I'm on Day 11 of my first round of capecitabine/xeloda, and so far, zero side effects. My doctor prescribed only 2000 mg/m^2 vs the 2500 mg/m^2 used in the CREATE-x study. I see him in a week; I'm sort of hoping he will up me to the 2500 since I don't feel any effects.
Also, I just read the most fascinating book ("The Death of Cancer" by Dr. Vince DaVita). He was the head of the NCI for almost a decade, was around for the start of chemotherapies (and created the cure for Hodgkins), ran MSKCC and Yale Cancer Center. In this book, he provides a fascinating history of cancer treatments, and really dishes on a lot of his colleagues. He is a straight shooter, and he does not hold back on his criticism. Fascinating insight into the politics of the war on cancer, etc. He especially takes aim at the FDA and too much regulation for really slowing new life-saving treatments getting to patients. I'd really recommend it!
Good luck everyone!
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Dx April 2015 IDC TN 2.2 cm, Grade 3, Chemo started May 2015: Taxol/Carbo then AC, Lx with SNB Nov 2015, 33 Rad Dec 2015-Feb 2016. 6 months Capecitabine starting March 2016
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Posted: Mar 20 2016 at 3:07pm |
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Thanks Tulips. I talked to my surgeon about all of this because he is the one who created the cancer center at my hospital. He said its sad that we the patients are having to look at all these studies and try and get our docs on board with using them. We dont have the years of training our docs do. He also said unfortunately some places also want the money. They are basically sales men and i have to beware of them too. But he said the average oncologist has thpusands of patients and is working 10 to 12 hour days and then is on call every evening. They simply dont have a lot of time to help us wade through too much of this. I know my own husband who is a physicians assistant in pathology really does work 50 to 55 hrs a week but doesnt take call. It sounds to me like an opening for a new position in cancer care. A patient advocate who can help with the research part. We do have a research person on staff who tries to help the docs now. Anyway cudos from an old surgeon for taling it upon ourselves but also caution because things can sound better than they are. Also watch out for the wolves in sheep clothing just trying to sell us a bill of goods.
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Bethie
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Posted: Mar 21 2016 at 12:13am |
Wow everyone! I was away from my computer a few days and it is so great to get all caught up on all of the helpful information you have shared. Tulips...I am so thrilled to hear you are not having any symptoms! Congrats! I finished up my radiation last Friday (8 HDR Accuboost treatments followed by 25 "regular" radiation treatments). My skin is a bit burned looking but VERY tolerable and really didn't get hit with too much fatigue either. I keep myself very busy with work and doing fun stuff that I just don't find the time to sit around and focus on feeling badly. I have decided there is a reason I am going to be in NY and will attempt to make that consultation appointment with Dr Traina. I hope she can fit me in within my time range that I am there. I really need to make this carbo vs xeloda decision very soon!! Thanks again everyone for the great input and Meg, loved your story...it gives so much hope. You are amazing! Take care everyone, let's keep this topic flowing. Adjuvant therapy is something we really need to draw attention to for those of us with residual disease!
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StephandBrandon
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Posted: Mar 21 2016 at 1:15pm |
Thanks for validating my feelings Tulips!! I totally agree, I don't think I am done with my questions yet. I sent her a bulleted list of reasons why we should try it (more like a long list of reasons as to why not). I hope you don't mind, but I even mentioned that you hadn't had any side effects yet, and I tolerated AC/Taxol/Carbo with minimal side effects (I worked the whole way through), so I would imagine Xeloda would be the same. She responded that she'll call me to discuss this afternoon. I just get frustrated because although I love my oncologist, she's through Kaiser and she's not a breast cancer specialist. As a result, I have to really be on top of new treatments and advocate for myself. I'll be switching insurance on July 1 to United Health Care and have already made an appointment with another Oncologist who specializes in women under 50 diagnosed with breast cancer (I am 38). Hopefully I am making the right decision. Switching insurance/oncologists is super scary. Thanks for the book reco! I am going to order it from Amazon now! Please keep us updated on your progress and any side effects that you may be experiencing! Steph I am sure everyone here can relate when I say, I want to do everything in my power to keep a recurrence from occurring.
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DX on 1/27/15, Stage 3 TNBC, A/C every 2 weeks for 8 weeks, Taxol/Carbo every week for 12 weeks, Carbo every 3rd
Local lymphnode recurrence 3/3/17; Keytruda Trial 3/29/17
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luzmia
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Posted: Mar 21 2016 at 5:01pm |
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Hi Steph,
My sister wss diag. and treated for Stage 1- 1.9 cm IDC- grade 2- no lymp inv. but had Vascular inv. present. Her Onco - also a Kaiser Dr. - Recommended 4 X TC only- I was very glad at the time but as I read more about TNBC - and found out how aggressive this type of Cancer is - I have become very concern, nervous, scared and depressed at the fact that I feel she could have been under treated. Oct. 2015 was last TC chemo and the Onco did not recommend any follow up scans - She had bilateral mastectomies -so no radiation. I had asked her if she should do a Pet scan- or any other blood test but Onco said that it was not needed at this stage. For some reason this has me VERY scared thinking that a reocurence most def. will happen. It's been 5 months her her treatment and wanted to know if Xeloda could be given. Has any one had this chemo this far after treatment. Or it has to be done with- in a time limit. Has any one in this board been treated with 4XTC only and has been NED. Please give me some comforting words. Thank you all.
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