Low Fat Diet Information
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Topic: Low Fat Diet Information
Posted By: My3girls
Subject: Low Fat Diet Information
Date Posted: Mar 04 2008 at 7:55am
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Hi everyone! After reading about the benefits of the low fat diet on this forum and other forums, I decided to research it myself. I wanted details of what 20% meant and how to calculate it. What I found was very surprising. The articles that were dated in the last 6 months show that the low fat diet does not significantly help with prevention or recurrence. I am attaching the link to the article that was easiest to read for me but you can go online yourself and just google "low fat breast cancer diet" and read for yourself. Even the article on breastcancer.org was modified as of 7/07 to show that the results were not accurate.
Don't get me wrong I do believe that a low fat diet couldn't hurt, I just wanted to get the most up to date information out there and to let others know that if you can't reach the 20% benchmark in your daily calories that it is not the end of the world OR your fault. Each of the articles I read also state that this diet is very hard to maintain. The article I have included states that the researcher even tried to maintain this diet and it is very hard. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19810563/ - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19810563/
Hope this helps! ------------- Gina Dx 8/07, ER-, PR-, HER2-, 4cm, 5 out of 11 Lymph nodes BRCA1 + 12 AC dd weekly 12/07 12 Taxol dd weekly - 3/08. Bilateral Mastectomy 4/08 Local recurrence 5/08 3 girls and a husband |
Replies:
Posted By: cg---
Date Posted: Mar 04 2008 at 8:33am
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Thank you so much....I thought it was really hard to accomplish....I am still going to see the registered dietitian, but I feel better knowing others had a hard time. Connie
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Posted By: Darla
Date Posted: Mar 04 2008 at 11:17am
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Hi Gina and Connie,
I had read before that an increase in fruits and vegetables did not have an effect but my onc just told me about the WINS breast cancer study and I read the report myself. It's always good to know the latest research but I feel kind of depressed. Focussing on maintaining a low fat diet gave me a sense of control. On the flip side, as you point out, it is difficult and I won't feel guilty if I can't keep it up. I have been succeeding at keeping my fat calories under 20% for a whopping 15 days
 and have lost 5 lbs so far. I am going to try to keep it up since it can't hurt and being overweight in itself increases risk of recurrence - I think for Triple Negs as well as hormone+. |
Posted By: My3girls
Date Posted: Mar 04 2008 at 3:28pm
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Darla,
That is awesome! 15 days of success! I really just wanted to make sure that all of us gals weren't feeling the guilt if they were unable to do it. I definitely think that maintaining a healthy weight and exercise will help! It certainly can't hurt. I plan on doing so myself
 ------------- Gina Dx 8/07, ER-, PR-, HER2-, 4cm, 5 out of 11 Lymph nodes BRCA1 + 12 AC dd weekly 12/07 12 Taxol dd weekly - 3/08. Bilateral Mastectomy 4/08 Local recurrence 5/08 3 girls and a husband |
Posted By: Ronda
Date Posted: Mar 04 2008 at 5:44pm
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Hi Gals, Before you grab the Ben and Jerry's you should know Dr. Block the key note speaker at the Young Survival Conference sponsored by Susan G. Komen spoke about this very study and said it was flawed because no one truly followed it, they reduced their fat intake 13% but did not meet the 20% goal. In the WINS Study, the women were given dietician and did keep a daily record, it was a more disciplined study. He is still backing the WINS findings and so was the PhD, surgeon, nutritionist lady who also spoke there. ------------- DX 3/07 IDC Trip neg, stage 2b, SN biopsy 3 node neg. No vascular invasion, Mast 4/07 AC+T DD Finshed 8/07 BRCA 1, Proph Mast 10/07. Reconst & Prophy Hyst. 10/08 |
Posted By: My3girls
Date Posted: Mar 05 2008 at 4:21am
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Well I am all for doing whatever will help! ------------- Gina Dx 8/07, ER-, PR-, HER2-, 4cm, 5 out of 11 Lymph nodes BRCA1 + 12 AC dd weekly 12/07 12 Taxol dd weekly - 3/08. Bilateral Mastectomy 4/08 Local recurrence 5/08 3 girls and a husband |
Posted By: peach
Date Posted: Mar 05 2008 at 4:42am
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Thanks Gina,
I've been trying to eat low fat these last few weeks based on the WINS Study. I'm dissapointed in this new study, but I'm still going to change my diet. I just won't be so hard on myself if I'm not always perfect.
I guess the hardest part for me is this was about the only positive thing I ever read when it comes to our cancer. Thanks for the info seems like when it comes to medical research it's always conflicting.
Pat
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Posted By: My3girls
Date Posted: Mar 05 2008 at 6:39am
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Pat,
I almost wish I wouldn't have posted this information. My intention was not to take away anyone's hope or sense of purpose. By all means, eating a low fat diet will never be a bad thing and who knows, in another 6 months it might come out that the recent studies were flawed and it really would help. I want to apologize to everyone on this board. I did not mean to take away anything, I just was having a hard time reaching that 20% goal that I thought my posting this information might ease some of the guilt that myself and maybe others were feeling. I am still trying to eat low fat as well, just wasn't making myself crazy about it.
I apologize to everyone. ------------- Gina Dx 8/07, ER-, PR-, HER2-, 4cm, 5 out of 11 Lymph nodes BRCA1 + 12 AC dd weekly 12/07 12 Taxol dd weekly - 3/08. Bilateral Mastectomy 4/08 Local recurrence 5/08 3 girls and a husband |
Posted By: Ronda
Date Posted: Mar 05 2008 at 7:02am
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Gina,
Don't stress about it. We're all doing our best to sort through all the information that is thrown at us. I'm actually glad you brought it up because the study was an issue at the conference, it needs to be talked about. Here's some low fat tricks.
Quick cooking with oil...oil and heat create hydrogenated fat.
Avoid hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated fat in food products.
Vegetarian canned chili is very low fat.
Lots of breads are now lowfat.
There is a yummy organic margarine that does have the good fats called Earth Balance when you need an ever so slight butter fix.
If you stick to produce, with the exception of my beloved avacados you can have as much as you want (although, corn, potatos, and the other starches should be used in moderation).
Also don't think these fake fats are doing you any favors, if you read the chemical compositon you'll see you're just swaping out poisons)
Nonfat or low fat plain yogurt instead of sour cream for dips and dressings
Lastly, this is really hard for all of us, so take it easy on yourself and try to stick to whole, not processed foods. With all of the diets we girls have been exposed to it's easy to get discouraged and confused. Just like having to learn about our breast cancer, we have to learn about diet. Change is never easy. Don't ever be afraid to post, it's through the dialog that we are creating a brighter path for everyone!
Ronda
------------- DX 3/07 IDC Trip neg, stage 2b, SN biopsy 3 node neg. No vascular invasion, Mast 4/07 AC+T DD Finshed 8/07 BRCA 1, Proph Mast 10/07. Reconst & Prophy Hyst. 10/08 |
Posted By: peach
Date Posted: Mar 05 2008 at 8:25am
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Gina,
Don't apologize to anyone, I'm glad you posted this information that's why I come to this board. I know we're all looking for information good and bad. I will continue doing low fat cause it will make me healthier in the long run. It maynot be a miracle cure but it can't hurt. I don't think I can do the 20% goal so I'll lighten up on myself.
Ronda, thanks for all the low fat tricks and keep them coming.
Pat
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Posted By: cbee
Date Posted: Mar 05 2008 at 10:37am
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I'm sorry to be a party pooper but It's really important to look at the whole picture. It's not about how much fat we eat, it's about what kind of fat we eat!
This WINS study doesn't differentiate between saturated/unsaturated, trans/cis, EFAs, animal fats, etc. Reducing fat intake as a whole is a dying theory that is holding onto it's tenet that reduced fat intake is associated with "health". All this with no consideration for genetic heritage, biochemistry, latitude, physical condition, hormone status, inflammation,
etc.
The WINS study, and some of the other dietary studies surrounding women with BC conclude that there is a relationship between body fat, insulin, blood sugar and IGF's, Insulin like growth factors, that may influence BC outcomes. So it's really important to cut out those bad fats as well as simple sugars.
My point is that there are is a huge number of factors involved in our health with regards to dietary fat intake, not only with regard to type of fat, but with regard to environment, genetics, etc.
For me (and I'm sure many of you here) eating some avocado everyday is a good idea. Using butter for cooking (yes real butter - in moderate amounts), and putting olive oil on your salads is also a good idea. Taking essential fatty acids in the form of pure fish oil is a good idea. Fats, depending on their conformation are utilized through many different pathways. The truth is, without dietary fat, we can't make hormones. Without hormones, we can't tell our bodes to rebuild new tissue, to repair wounds, to maintain neurologic integrity. As with all things in life, we need to maintain balance.
-cbee |
Posted By: cbee
Date Posted: Mar 05 2008 at 10:46am
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I'm sorry to be a party pooper but It's really important to look at the whole picture. It's not about how much fat we eat, it's about what kind of fat we eat!
This WINS study doesn't differentiate between saturated/unsaturated, trans/cis, EFAs, animal fats, etc. Reducing fat intake as a whole is a dying theory that is holding onto it's tenet that reduced fat intake is associated with "health". All this with no consideration for genetic heritage, biochemistry, latitude, physical condition, hormone status, inflammation,etc.
The WINS study, and some of the other dietary studies surrounding women with BC conclude that there is a relationship between body fat, insulin, blood sugar and IGF's, insulin like growth factors, that may influence BC outcomes. So it's really important to cut out those bad fats as well as simple sugars.
My point is that there are is a huge number of factors involved in our health with regards to dietary fat intake, not only with regard to type of fat, but with regard to environment, genetics, etc.
For me (and I'm sure many of you here) eating some avocado everyday is a good idea. Using butter for cooking (yes real butter - in moderate amounts), and putting olive oil on your salads is also a good idea. Taking essential fatty acids in the form of pure fish oil is a good idea. Fats, depending on their conformation are utilized through many different pathways. The truth is, without dietary fat, we can't make hormones. Without hormones, we can't tell our bodes to rebuild new tissue, to repair wounds, to maintain neurologic integrity. As with all things in life, we need to maintain balance.
-cbee |
Posted By: Ronda
Date Posted: Mar 06 2008 at 7:03am
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I totally agree cbee, regarding insulins, body fat, etc, I believe that was the pupose for the wins study.....that fat intake did matter. Turns out, not so much for the ER positives (there issue is insulin and actual body fat) the er- benefited from low fat diet. It seems crazy in this day and age they didn't differentiate the types of fats. My onc also said losing weight was not a factor for triple negs. Maintaining current weight with a low fat diet was all that was neccessary. I do agree the types of fats are important, but should still be used in the 20% total calorie intake. 1 avacado is 30 grams of fat, good fat..but fat. I totally think whole foods and good fats are the way to go! Mostly learning how to substitute
low fats and good fats can really make a big difference. Hopefully we'll get some pretty good recipes out of this group.
More low fat foods...
Egg whites or egg beaters are fat free
Bagels (whole grain) are low fat
Pickles..no fat
Parmesean and mozarella cheese....low fat
Take skin off chicken before cooking
Ronda
------------- DX 3/07 IDC Trip neg, stage 2b, SN biopsy 3 node neg. No vascular invasion, Mast 4/07 AC+T DD Finshed 8/07 BRCA 1, Proph Mast 10/07. Reconst & Prophy Hyst. 10/08 |
Posted By: wicked
Date Posted: Mar 06 2008 at 9:13am
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Hi all,
The study that showed the reduction in recurrence with the low fat diet is the WINS study. I was told by my dietician that the WHEL study that did not show a decrease in recurrence was indeed flawed. So this is good news for us.
As for me, I've been following the low fat diet for at least 6 months. I shoot for about 20 grams of fat/day so if I go over, I'm still ok. It was hard in the beginning but does get easier. And yes, there are times when I do cheat!
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Posted By: efisher
Date Posted: Mar 12 2008 at 6:48am
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This list was posted at my office so I thougtht I would share it with everyone. Something to think about when eating out! It's the 20 worst foods in America. http://www.wltx.com/print/default.asp?storyid=56083 - http://www.wltx.com/print/default.asp?storyid=56083
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Posted By: lindas
Date Posted: Apr 20 2008 at 5:25pm
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This is not about low fat diets, but as I read all of your comments, I see that lots of you are posting "no vascular invasion." How do you know that? I don't remember any discussion of that with my oncologist. I was diagnosed in January with a 2.1 cm. tumor, stage IIA, that was removed with a lumpectomy with clean margins. A SN biopsy showed no cancer present. I also notice that many of you say 3 node neg--what does that mean? Were three nodes checked? This is my first time on the web site, and I am very intrigued by all of your comments. |
Posted By: Ronda
Date Posted: Apr 21 2008 at 5:49pm
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Hi Lindas, Welcome to the site. To answer your questions, your pathologist checks for blood supply that feed the tumor which would be vascular invasion. With SN biopsy they check the node that lights up plus two extras, but that can vary. Also 3 can mean the grade of tumor, triple negatives tend to be grade 3 which means a high proliferation rate. If you look at past topics you'll find a wealth of information, plus if you use the search button you can type in topics and it will pull up what has been written so far. If you find someone on here that has a similar story a private message might also get you quicker answers. Our board has gotten pretty big because of all the recent press, so be patient and keep asking quetions.
All the best,
Ronda ------------- DX 3/07 IDC Trip neg, stage 2b, SN biopsy 3 node neg. No vascular invasion, Mast 4/07 AC+T DD Finshed 8/07 BRCA 1, Proph Mast 10/07. Reconst & Prophy Hyst. 10/08 |
Posted By: lindas
Date Posted: Apr 21 2008 at 6:06pm
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HI Ronda,
Thank you so much for the reply. I will talk about vascular invasion with my oncologist tomorrow. I don't remember a thing about that on my path report, which I studied carefully and the Mayo Clinic redid after it was done in Sioux City, Iowa. I have another question for you now.
Why did you choose to have a mastectomy since your nodes were negative. Did you learn after a lumpectomy that your tumor was triple neg and decide after that? I am beginning to worry that I too should have chosen that option. Mine was stage 2a and was 2.1 cm. I've also had trouble with AC--got two full doses and then got hand-food syndrome to a severe degree, and my live enzymes got out of whack, so they stopped adriamycin and continued cytoxin for another dose. They are starting me on Taxol tomorrow, and then may return to Adriamycin at the end (two doses needed along with the last dose of cytoxin). |
Posted By: lindas
Date Posted: Apr 21 2008 at 6:07pm
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Sorry for ending that e-mail so abruptly, Rhonda. Just wanted to say thanks again. It is great to learn about the site. Linda
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Posted By: Ronda
Date Posted: Apr 21 2008 at 7:07pm
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Hi again, I decided to do a mastectomy originally because I didn't want radiation near my heart. As I went through the treatment I decided I never wanted to have to worry about breast cancer again so I had the other one removed as well. Turns out I'm a BRCA 1, so it was a lucky decision. I have some pretty strong opinions about lumpectomies and triple negative bc. I'm not sure I buy the stats on lumpectomies when it comes to triple negatives and developing new breast cancer, partially because many women are not being tested for the known brca genes, but even if they test negative it does not mean it's not genetic, it just means it's not BRCA 1or 2. So you have to rely on doctors finding it early in the event it shows up again. Oddly I tend to be a minimalist and for me this was my approach to never having to deal with this crap once I get my 3 year clear. There are some women on this site who survived their first cancer only to get a new one and are now dealing with mets. Many women have mastectomies after lumpectomies, so I'm sure it's still an option if you're worried. These are tough and personal choices and no matter what road you take there will always be what ifs, so do the best you can and be sure to have your vitamin D levels checked. I've written a bunch on this topic....it's important.
I'm sorry chemo isn't going well, I have highly suggested women see nutrionists or naturpaths while undergoing treatment because it can really help you get through it and recover after. I have never heard of hand-food syndrome, but it doesn't sound too good.
If you can't do chemo you may want to look into alkalizing your system, there are a bunch of books on it one being The PH Miracle. It's kind of tough but it's supposed to create such an environment of health inside your body that cancer doesn't grow. Just a thought.
Be strong,
Ronda
------------- DX 3/07 IDC Trip neg, stage 2b, SN biopsy 3 node neg. No vascular invasion, Mast 4/07 AC+T DD Finshed 8/07 BRCA 1, Proph Mast 10/07. Reconst & Prophy Hyst. 10/08 |
Posted By: lindas
Date Posted: Apr 22 2008 at 8:27am
| Thanks, Ronda. I am talking about all of this with my oncologist today! I start Taxol and am hoping it goes well. I've already picked up so much information on the site. I just need to keep it all in perspective! Thanks so much! |
Posted By: mountain125
Date Posted: May 08 2008 at 7:06pm
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This has been the most relevant item for me lately... I've been following the low fat diet for the past 2 years. I'm eating lots of grains, beans, and love to bake. I guess my diet follows a very specific pattern. Throw in trying to get 6+ servings of veggies and I'm spending lots of time on food prep. I keep asking my oncologist about whether I should be trying this or not. I also asked the question on the teleconference. What I'm understanding, is that the studies were small to begin with and one and included only a small number of TN's. They can also be flawed because of how it was done... people reporting what they ate doesn't carry the highest accuracy. I hope they'll continue to study this (even though no one can make money off of it). I've had some skin irritation and the dermatologist said that too low of fat intake could contribute, so decided to add some more fats to my diet. At this point it means adding some olive oil and raw almonds (I'm pretty use to the taste of raw at this point). I'm going on the idea of having mostly high quality fats (in addition to ice cream or a treat every day!). I'm thinking it gets back to the idea of balance. The dr in the teleconference stated that it's not harmful to have a low fat diet, so it's not going to hurt. I suppose I'm still sorting it all out. I believe if you're willing to do lots of cooking, a low fat diet can be done. I wish we had some more specific info on what to do after chemo to have some sense of control over my destiny. On a more logical plane, I really do think it's out of my control. I'm happy to say I'm 3 years out and still NED but feel extremely grateful. |
Posted By: Jessie
Date Posted: May 09 2008 at 8:07am
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Mountain125,
Your id implies you live in the mountains --- you LUCKY lady !
 My hubby and I are looking for a retirement home - or maybe shack - in the mountains. Two more years to work, and we're there ! Where are your mountains?The mountains wasn't the only thing about your post that drew me in, your description of your cooking and eating habits really impressed me. I like to say I do a low-fat eating style, but I'm too often guilty of doing the takeout routine.
 I really do like fruits and veges and grains, but you're right -- it calls for some degree of cooking. After work, I'm just too lazy to do what's best for me.You're an inspiration to me to turn over a new leaf and treat myself a little better. In addition to the TNBC, I also have heart issues so I really HAVE to say no to the drive-thrus.
Thanks for the push to better habits !
Hugs,
Jessie ------------- IDC,Stage I,Grade 3,dx 4/06 dbl mast 5/06, systemic MRSA post surgery septic shock, heart attack triple bypass 1/07 no chemo due to infections and heart issues so far NED! |