Let's Talk About Chemotherapy - Tumor shrinkage during chemo

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Tumor shrinkage during chemo

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Forum Name: Let's Talk About Chemotherapy
Forum Description: A place to discuss Chemotherapy
URL: http://forum.tnbcfoundation.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=11063
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Topic: Tumor shrinkage during chemo

Posted By: JulieKCA2013
Subject: Tumor shrinkage during chemo
Date Posted: Mar 30 2013 at 7:13pm

Has anyone had chemo prior to tumor removal? Did you notice any shrinkage and if you did at what point? My doctor said I might see it with this first treatment. I did see the pain go away, today I had some discomfort but it is not as bad as after my biopsy.

Just curious other experience.

Thanks

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Dx 3-7-13 TNBC, 5cm pT2N1M0
3-19-13 ACx4, 5-14-13 Taxolx4
7-17-13 BMX ypT1N2M0(.9mm) 4/24 nodes.
10-8-13 completed Rads x 30
12-3-13 completed Eribulin Trial
10-18-13, 3-19-14 Bone/Ct Scan Clear

Replies:

Posted By: weekender09
Date Posted: Mar 30 2013 at 11:48pm

Julie:

I will have chemo 3 on Monday. I noticed the pain go away by treatment 2 as before that I could have chopped my boob off myself it hurt so bad. But I totally can tell the tumor has been shrinking as can my mom and boyfriend. At number 2 the PA also said it appeared to be shrinking in size. This gives me so much positive reinforcement. One friend said My story makes her think of the Wicked Witch Melting Away.... I like that analogy.

Here's hoping our Witches melt away!!

Barb

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02/12/13 DX TNBC, Grade III, Stage 3, 3.3cm tumor, IMN and 1 lymph Positive, Chemo A/C T complete 6/13
BRCA1-/BRCA2+ Variance, BIL 7/13, 33 RADS complete 10/13 Remssion :)

Posted By: rosered71169
Date Posted: Mar 31 2013 at 12:24am

Yes, I had neoadjuvant chemo. I had an MRI halfway through - after chemo 3 of 6 total. They could not see any tumor or lymph node involvement on the MRI scan! What a miracle that the chemo worked so well. My surgery confirmed those results. Hope your chemo works just as well!

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IDC 2-21-2012 @ age 42 TNBC, Stage IIA, Gr 3, 1.5cm Tumor Rt Breast, 3 Lymph Nodes, Neoadj Chemo, TACx6,BRCA Neg, Bilateral Mastectomy 7-30-12, 28 Rads, Bilateral DIEP 5-22-13...3 Beautiful Daughters

Posted By: JulieKCA2013
Date Posted: Mar 31 2013 at 9:06am

I like that analogy too! I guess I started to worry. I know the pain went away right away and I should be happy with that happening after one treatment. Yesterday I had a very dull ache and this is probably what started the worry. The what if's started in my head. My next appointment is Tuesday and I am ready to hit this thing with the second punch. A family member who went through ovarian cancer gave me another good analogy for my kids. She told me to tell them the chemo was like pacman and it was going to gobble up the cancer. This way they know the cancer is the bad guy and not the chemo when I am weak and not feeling well.

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Dx 3-7-13 TNBC, 5cm pT2N1M0
3-19-13 ACx4, 5-14-13 Taxolx4
7-17-13 BMX ypT1N2M0(.9mm) 4/24 nodes.
10-8-13 completed Rads x 30
12-3-13 completed Eribulin Trial
10-18-13, 3-19-14 Bone/Ct Scan Clear

Posted By: weekender09
Date Posted: Mar 31 2013 at 7:56pm

Love That!! Good Luck Tuesday. My number three is tomorrow so tonight is a zanax night so I can sleep and not obsess over the ishy pacman!

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02/12/13 DX TNBC, Grade III, Stage 3, 3.3cm tumor, IMN and 1 lymph Positive, Chemo A/C T complete 6/13
BRCA1-/BRCA2+ Variance, BIL 7/13, 33 RADS complete 10/13 Remssion :)

Posted By: sweetpickle
Date Posted: Apr 01 2013 at 4:11pm

Hi Julie,

Im doing cemo right now and my tumor went from 4.3cm to undetectable by palpatation after four A/C chemos. I had one Taxol and one Taxotere and still cant feel anything, I have two taxotere treatments left. I will know more when I have surgery but so far it seems like it may be gone. At least thats what Im hoping for.

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11/13/12 DX TNBC, BRCA 1+ Grade 3, 4.3cm tumor, susp. node under arm, 4 A/C biweekly & 4 Taxol biweekly

Posted By: momof2
Date Posted: Apr 01 2013 at 7:49pm

LOL!!! That's what my chemo oncology doctor, nurse, and I would say about my tumor..."It's meltinggggg!!!" instead of "I'm meltingggg!" hehehe

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TNBC/ILCw/MedullaryFeatures 9/19/12/age39,Stage2b,Grade 3,4x4cm,InternalMammary 1.3x0.6cm,16 NodesRemoved/rb lumpectomy/ClearMargins 3/15/13,BRCA1/2 Neg,8x AM386/Taxol;4x A/C;34Rads6/26/13;NED5/18/16

Posted By: momof2
Date Posted: Apr 01 2013 at 7:52pm

I was in the I Spy Clinical Trial in La Jolla, CA (UCSD/UCSF) and my tumor was shrinking but then began to grow again after the 7th treatment (receiving 1x wk)...on trial from 10/25-12/13 and 12/20 took me off and put on me on A/C (Red Devil) treatment every other week til 1/31 and tumor began shrinking after 1st treatment and became undetectable in my right breast, lymphnodes, and internal mammary..needless to say my doctors were all extremely happy and I went on to have a lumpectomy, removed 16 lymphnodes, and port removed at same time on 3/15/13; had clear margins in path report. It's been two weeks since surgery and I'm feeling this burning/irritation in right nipple...I hope that's part of the healing process..concerned Unhappy

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TNBC/ILCw/MedullaryFeatures 9/19/12/age39,Stage2b,Grade 3,4x4cm,InternalMammary 1.3x0.6cm,16 NodesRemoved/rb lumpectomy/ClearMargins 3/15/13,BRCA1/2 Neg,8x AM386/Taxol;4x A/C;34Rads6/26/13;NED5/18/16

Posted By: Lillie
Date Posted: Apr 01 2013 at 9:21pm

Praise God for all the Melting tumors in all of you young ladies. I had surgery first, so i wasn't able to experience that, but what wonderful thought. The Wicked Tumor To The Right and To The Left is Melllltttttiiiiinnnnggggggg. Stay strong, all of you.

God Bless,

Lillie

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Dx 6/06 age 65,IDC-TNBC
Stage IIb,Gr3,2cm,BRCA-
6/06 L/Mast/w/SNB,1of3 Nodes+
6/06 Axl. 9 nodes-
8/8 thru 11/15 Chemo (Clin-Trial) DD A/Cx4 -- DD taxol+gemzar x4
No Rads.
No RECON - 11/2018-12 yrs NED

Posted By: debB
Date Posted: Apr 01 2013 at 10:04pm

Hi Julie,

I wrote a response right after you posted the other night and now it doesn't seem to be here. My ipad and I don't seem to be getting along with posting. anyway... to repeat!

I had neoadjuvant chemo nearly two years ago. I too had a painful tumor but I don't think the pain was totally gone by the second treatment. I do think the tumor was softening and definitely noticed a big difference by treatment three. Prior to chemo it was growing like the proverbial weed in the four weeks from when I found it until starting chemo, so I checked that thing all the time! I did not have any scans along the way. They talked about it initially, but when it was abviously doing the job, they felt there was no need.

Sweetpickle- hoping that tumor is totally GONE!

Fingers crossed ladies!
Deb

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Dx 4/29/11, 46 yrs old, 3.9 cm tumor, Stg 2 Grade 3 chemo 4 rounds DD AC, 12 weekly taxol, finish. Lumpectomy, 2mm residual tumor. 37 rounds rads completed. Cisplatin/PARP trial

Posted By: JulieKCA2013
Date Posted: Apr 03 2013 at 5:54am

Thanks ladies. I saw my dr yesterday before my second treatment. She said the pain diminishing was a good first step. I told her I thought i might have gone down at first but now I wasn't so sure. She said its "the same size but I do agree it feels different, more moveable". She also told me there can be scar tissue that has formed so they will only know if it pathogen free until the surgery is done and they examine the tissue. She said sometimes it can feel like something is still there but all that you are feeling is scar tissue. I love my doctor she always has the right things to say to make me feel better.

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Dx 3-7-13 TNBC, 5cm pT2N1M0
3-19-13 ACx4, 5-14-13 Taxolx4
7-17-13 BMX ypT1N2M0(.9mm) 4/24 nodes.
10-8-13 completed Rads x 30
12-3-13 completed Eribulin Trial
10-18-13, 3-19-14 Bone/Ct Scan Clear

Posted By: JulieKCA2013
Date Posted: Apr 03 2013 at 5:57am

Your analogy is funny because I always say on my way to chemo "off to see the wizard" and I get the wizard of oz song stuck in my head, "Because of the wonderful things he does!" I made this up for my kids but I like it more i think! :)

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Dx 3-7-13 TNBC, 5cm pT2N1M0
3-19-13 ACx4, 5-14-13 Taxolx4
7-17-13 BMX ypT1N2M0(.9mm) 4/24 nodes.
10-8-13 completed Rads x 30
12-3-13 completed Eribulin Trial
10-18-13, 3-19-14 Bone/Ct Scan Clear

Posted By: momof2
Date Posted: Apr 03 2013 at 10:16am

Julie,

Too cute and hilarious...we have to keep our humor!! I tend to watch tons of comedy and would take comedy dvds with me to my chemo infusion center. I would be the only one cracking up and all the nurses would always come by to take a peek at what was so hilarious. Positive attitude plus keeping your mind off of what is happening was my spin on it all. Go to You Tube and watch Chonda Pierce...clean humor and hilarious!!!! I also bought her cds for car ride over...center is between 2-3hrs away depending on traffic. My little one (kinder) does magic tricks for me and tries to make me laugh as much as possible/well I do it for him as well...keeping it as "normal" as possible for everyone! Smile

Posted By: JulieKCA2013
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 2:30am

I have good news to report. I had my last AC treatment today. Also my tumor has shrunk enormously. It is very deep and hard to feel the margins. Still something is there width wise, which makes me nervous. So many say they feel nothing after 4 AC treatments, and while I have had a good response, something is definitely still there. I am hoping Taxol continues the shrinking trend. Oh what a worrier I have become. :)

Thanks again ladies.

- Julie

Posted By: MarissaK
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 12:35pm

Julie, sounds like you are moving along great and with positive progression on the AC. It is a very good sign that the texture of your tumor feels to be changing or breaking down, even if you still feel something there at this point. My docs told me the same thing about the scar tissue and they were right. My tumor melted away relatively quick after starting A/C, but I was still paranoid feeling a little something under my arm the entire time (I had lymph node involvement). My doctor kept telling me she thought it was scar tissue from the tumor breaking down. Anyhow, at time of surgery my path revealed a pCR with nothing left but fibrous tissue in the breast and "fibrous scarring" in the axilla.

Hope you do just as well on the Taxol.

Take care.

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DX 5/18/12 at age 34. Stage IIIC IDC TNBC, grade 3, 3 cm (multiregional nodal involvement). DD ACT complete 9/5/12. BMX 10/15/12, ALND: 0/12 nodes. pCR. Rads x 25 + 3 boosts completed 2/6/13. BRCA neg

Posted By: TriplePositiveGirl
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 12:52pm

That is great Julie! Try not to worry - sounds like the chemo is doing its job!

Best Wishes for continued success,

Lisa

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Diagnosed Jan 2010; Stage IIa, grade 2, 3.2cm in rt. breast, no nodes and BRCA-. 4 cycles Carbo/Gemzar 3/10; Lump 6/10; 2 cycles carbo/gem after surgery 8/10; 35 Rads finished 12/1/10. NED.

Posted By: sweetpickle
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 3:09pm

Congrats Julie! Sending lots of melting vibes your way :-) I just completed chemo and it looks like mine is still gone, on to surgery May 24th. Keep going and try to laugh as much as you can, I think that helps a ton!

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11/13/12 DX TNBC, BRCA 1+ Grade 3, 4.3cm tumor, susp. node under arm, 4 A/C biweekly & 4 Taxol biweekly

Posted By: JulieKCA2013
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 8:57pm

Did you ladies have any tests mid or end of chemo to look at the tumor size?

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Dx 3-7-13 TNBC, 5cm pT2N1M0
3-19-13 ACx4, 5-14-13 Taxolx4
7-17-13 BMX ypT1N2M0(.9mm) 4/24 nodes.
10-8-13 completed Rads x 30
12-3-13 completed Eribulin Trial
10-18-13, 3-19-14 Bone/Ct Scan Clear

Posted By: MarissaK
Date Posted: May 02 2013 at 2:17am

I did not during chemo. I inquired, but my oncologist and surgeon said it wasn't necessary because they could tell by palpating that the mass was clearly disappearing, which meant the chemo was working. A month after I finished chemo, and one week before my surgery, I had an updated PET/CT, which confirmed NED but showed a tiny something still left in the breast/axilla. This turned out to be scar tissue.

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DX 5/18/12 at age 34. Stage IIIC IDC TNBC, grade 3, 3 cm (multiregional nodal involvement). DD ACT complete 9/5/12. BMX 10/15/12, ALND: 0/12 nodes. pCR. Rads x 25 + 3 boosts completed 2/6/13. BRCA neg

Posted By: JulieKCA2013
Date Posted: May 02 2013 at 4:41am

Thanks Marissa, I definitely do feel better, whatever is left is very deep, it also makes me feel better about not finding it until it was 4cm. It is very hard to distinguish between the other normal fibrous tissue since I have dense breasts. The nurse practitioner asked at my last visit if I felt anything else and I pointed out a spot on my right breast that I had noticed a few bumps. She told me no that is just over lapping breast tissue. How am I suppose to distinguish that? Main reason I am doing bilateral removal after chemo. :)

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Dx 3-7-13 TNBC, 5cm pT2N1M0
3-19-13 ACx4, 5-14-13 Taxolx4
7-17-13 BMX ypT1N2M0(.9mm) 4/24 nodes.
10-8-13 completed Rads x 30
12-3-13 completed Eribulin Trial
10-18-13, 3-19-14 Bone/Ct Scan Clear

Posted By: Gotawish
Date Posted: May 02 2013 at 9:13am

Julie,
My tumor was 7.0 x 5.1 mass like with undefined margins. It went undected by routine mammography and ultrasound. I felt something near my nipple just 4 months after my yearly testing. Repeat testing revealed nothing. A biopsy resulted with TN invasive BC. I had 4 AC treatments and MRI testing showed some shrinkage and much clearer margins. No longer mass like. Then went on to Taxotere treatments weekly for 5 weeks. I had a severe cummulative reaction of a blistering rash on my knuckles and my throat became very irritated and almost completely lost my voice. Ultrasound at this time showed no more shrinkage, but it did show holes throughout the tumor. Kind of like that PacMan chewed it up. My doctor feels most of what is left probably is scar tissue or just fibrous tissue. Yippee.... I was initially scheduled for 12 Taxotere treatments but was switched to Taxol due to the reactions I had from Taxotere. I completed two rounds of higher dose Taxol and now completed my Chemo treatments. Woo hoo! I am scheduled for mastectomy on May 15.
My MO felt any shrinkage at all was a wonderful thing!
Always Smile ! It makes you feel better:)

Posted By: debB
Date Posted: May 02 2013 at 11:31am

You ladies are all describing what sounds like very good responses to chemo, which is wonderful!! We will all be hoping for great results from the final path report!

Deb

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Dx 4/29/11, 46 yrs old, 3.9 cm tumor, Stg 2 Grade 3 chemo 4 rounds DD AC, 12 weekly taxol, finish. Lumpectomy, 2mm residual tumor. 37 rounds rads completed. Cisplatin/PARP trial

Posted By: MarissaK
Date Posted: May 02 2013 at 1:30pm

Yes, I agree that bilateral is the best way to go, to not have to worry about that tissue left behind. Dense tissue makes imaging harder. I too always had very dense breasts and lots of fibroadenomas. I had had a fibroadenoma removed in the past. My tumor was actually mistaken as another one and I went misdiagnosed for some time. I started to wonder about a link somehow between dense tissue and breast cancer or TNBC in particular. It seems so many women who have been diagnosed have commented that they have dense breasts. When I had the bilateral mastectomy the path report revealed that 60% of each breast was made up of fibroadenomas!!

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DX 5/18/12 at age 34. Stage IIIC IDC TNBC, grade 3, 3 cm (multiregional nodal involvement). DD ACT complete 9/5/12. BMX 10/15/12, ALND: 0/12 nodes. pCR. Rads x 25 + 3 boosts completed 2/6/13. BRCA neg

Posted By: annafriday
Date Posted: May 02 2013 at 8:12pm

Hi... I just started this triple negative journey also. I didn't have the option to get chemo prior to my surgery because I wasn't told I was triple negative until after I had a bilateral mastectomy. Wondering if the outcome is better? My tumor grew from 2.5cm to 6.2 cm after needle biopsy in one month. The problem is the doctors thought my larger mass and pain was due to a hematoma..boy were they wrong. Now I don't know if I want to do chemo or not. Everything I read says many of the chemos given do not stop a reoccurence or metastatic disease by much like 10%. I can't help but wonder if the chemo is more toxic then helpful. I also was wondering if anyone knows the chemo combunations with the best results?

Thanks!!

Anna

Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: May 02 2013 at 8:54pm

Hi Annafriday,

Sorry you have a reason to be here, TNBC that is. Chemo, and possibly radiation, is almost always recommended for TNBC. It's all we have to fight this disease. Did you have any positive nodes? The most common chemo given is adriamycin, cytoxan and taxol, but you'll see other women who've gotten different chemo combinations. It might be helpful to get a second opinion regarding treatment. Are you close to an NCCN facility or teaching hospital? Also ask what clinical trials might be a good fit for you. Understanding your choices is the best way to know you are making the right decision. Chemo is definitely doable and there are many drugs to help with the side effects. Wishing you the best.

Donna

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DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15

Posted By: annafriday
Date Posted: May 02 2013 at 9:17pm

Donna,

Thanks for the information. I plan on asking to be in clinical trials. My first appointment with medical oncologist is this Friday. I had a total of 22 nodes removed. There was a micro-invasion of the sentinal node but axillary nodes were clear.

Anna

Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: May 02 2013 at 11:18pm

Anna,

Here are some good sources to review. You may have already read or reviewed them, but wanted to give you some additional resources.

http://www.tnbcfoundation.org/State-of-the-Art%20Treatment%20for%20TNBC.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.tnbcfoundation.org/State-of-the-Art%20Treatment%20for%20TNBC.pdf

http://www.lbbc.org/Understanding-Breast-Cancer/Guides-to-Understanding-Breast-Cancer/Guide-to-Understanding-Triple-Negative-Breast-Cancer" rel="nofollow - http://www.lbbc.org/Understanding-Breast-Cancer/Guides-to-Understanding-Breast-Cancer/Guide-to-Understanding-Triple-Negative-Breast-Cancer

http://www.nccn.org/patients/patient_guidelines/breast/index.html#/1/" rel="nofollow - http://www.nccn.org/patients/patient_guidelines/breast/index.html#/1/

http://www.nccn.org/members/network.asp" rel="nofollow - http://www.nccn.org/members/network.asp

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=Triple+Negative+Breast+Cancer+and+adjuvant&recr=Open&no_unk=Y" rel="nofollow - http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=Triple+Negative+Breast+Cancer+and+adjuvant&recr=Open&no_unk=Y

Have you had your Vitamin D level checked? Most of us diagnosed with breast cancer have extremely low levels. Getting your levels up will improve surgery, chemo and radiation therapy.

http://forum.tnbcfoundation.org/vitamin-d3_topic5338_page35.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.tnbcfoundation.org/vitamin-d3_topic5338_page35.html

Posted By: JulieKCA2013
Date Posted: May 03 2013 at 8:11am

Anna chemo is highly effective on TNBC breast cancer as you can read by the many responses on here of how well the response was with shrinking the tumor. My mass grew also after the biopsy to 6cm, they also attributed to irritation/ hematoma due to the biopsy.

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Dx 3-7-13 TNBC, 5cm pT2N1M0
3-19-13 ACx4, 5-14-13 Taxolx4
7-17-13 BMX ypT1N2M0(.9mm) 4/24 nodes.
10-8-13 completed Rads x 30
12-3-13 completed Eribulin Trial
10-18-13, 3-19-14 Bone/Ct Scan Clear

Posted By: MLindaG
Date Posted: May 03 2013 at 9:31am

Julie, I had a 3.5 cm lump with three lymph nodes involvement. I had some shrinkage after the 4 A/C treatments but I did not have the oncologist say that he couldn't feel much until the 9th treatment of taxol. He too said that what could be left was fibrous tissue and possibly the cancer was gone. Then at my 12th treatment.........he couldn't feel any lump! My subsequent MRI showed nothing and after my surgery's path report I was given the CPR!!! So hang in there and don't get discouraged if it doesn't clear as fast as you want. It could still be melting away!!! Sending positive vibes! Keep imaging pac man!!!

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Dx TNBC 6/12; age 59; Stage 3, Grade 3; 3.5 cm, 3/10 nodes + chest wall nodes; A/C x4, T x 12 completed 12/12 with PCR, 2/13/13 lump; IMRT Rads x 33 completed 5/22/13 BRCA 1 negative.