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Dr. David Agus Vit D & Supplements

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mainsailset View Drop Down
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    Posted: Mar 10 2013 at 12:55pm
This morning on CNN's GPS Fareed interviewed Dr. David Agus (on Steve Job's oncology team) about his new book and the buzz that his view that supplements may be actually interferring with the natural process of the body to fight infection and yes cancer...by supplementing you may be growing a healthier tumor but not helping your body. He also advocates the use of baby aspirin (with the warning that it is not for everyone and must be discussed with your own doctor).
 
I found this question and answer piece with him from last year that is informative and though we may not agree with all he proposes, maybe we should pause for a moment and review the supplements we take and why. Anyway, here's the link and it is informative,   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/20/end-of-illness-david-agus_n_1365101.html
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear
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Annie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Annie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 10 2013 at 4:34pm
   

   Hi again Mainy, Wow, I guess the old adage, "take an aspirin and call me in the morning" is the best advice after all. (of course after discussing it with your dr.)   

                   I often forget to take supplements, but I do try and remember the 81mg aspirin at least a few times a week.
Annie TNBC Stage IIA Gr 3 1cm lesion 2/5 lymph nodes+ lumpectomy,FEC & D 30Rads finished(08/2009) BRCA- Chronic Cellulitis due to Radiation-- L.Mastectomy Jan 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 123Donna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 10 2013 at 8:24pm
Thanks Mainy!  I agree that it's better to get our vitamins through our food.  Sometimes it's tough for us living in parts of the country where fresh fruits and vegetables aren't available during the winter months.  I found part of his answers on Vit D and osteoporosis a little confusing:

[ With regard to calcium and vitamin D to prevent osteoporosis, the data don't really support this claim. Remember the Women's Health Initiative study of 36,282 post-menopausal women (NEJM 345(7)669-683, 2006). The women in the study were randomized to 1000 mg elemental calcium as calcium carbonate and 400 IU vit D3 daily versus placebo pills. The results of the study showed a slight improvement in hip bone density, but no change in hip fracture. ]

400 IUs of D3 daily extremely low.  Plus calcium carbonate is not the best source of calcium for absorption.  I wonder if the studies would have shown an improvement if higher levels of D3 were given?  Would bone density be better?  Would there be a change in hip fracture?  By saying not to take any supplements, then as women are we doomed to weakened bones?

Check out this link discussing the study:

Donna


Edited by 123Donna - Mar 10 2013 at 8:27pm
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mainsailset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 10 2013 at 8:43pm
Donna, you make me smile. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. I think in watching the interview on CNN that he was focused on getting people to think in terms of just taking handfuls of supplements will empower the individual to lead a healthier life. Instead he was inclined to ask if the supplements, in a person who has cancer, may be blocking the good things antioxidants do to prevent and subdue cancer as well and then perhaps make a healthier tumor but not a healthier patients.
 
He is also advocating a future where more individualized medications and protocols are delivered. THAT is something I think we all would cheer for. His ideas about aspirin are almost mainstream, DUH! to me now but that's ok, one more notch in my my medicine chest.
 
All in all, I was intrigued to turn our conversations on their head and wonder whether our good intentions to make ourselves stronger may instead be creating healthier tumors. Now that is something that truly scares me.
 
It is aggravating to see yet again another commentary about Vit D where the low doseage of 400IU is used for analysis. Until these guys catch up with the program I'll just skip over that study thankyouverymuch.
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 123Donna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 10 2013 at 10:11pm
Mainy,

I think your statement about making healthier patients is right on target.  I've taken supplements thinking they're helping, but now I wonder?  It scares me too to think we anything could be helping the tumor grow.  Instead of taking green tea supplements, I drink green tea.  Instead of fish oil or omega 3 supplements, I include ground flaxseed and chia seeds in my morning protein shake.  The only thing I haven't shied away from is the calcium/vitamin D since I'm now osteopenia (thank you cancer and chemo) and was deficient of Vit D after treatment.

Donna

   
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLindaG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2013 at 1:24am
Well, I took a boat load of supplements during my chemo (Multi vitamin, fish oil, Vit D, Calcium citrate, CoQ10, Aleve, probiotic, acetle- L carnitine, Vit E, B complex - I think that was it! LOL) - had a 3.5 cm lump in breast and lymph node involvement (which turned out to be three lymph nodes with cancer) and ALL was gone after my 6 months of chemo.  I never got sick, my white blood cell count was always good and never went low.  Never missed a chemo treatment.  I drink 2 cups of green tea daily.  I try to eat a healthy diet but during chemo that was almost impossible.  I discussed all supplements with my medical oncologist and he said none would interfere.  I also, got minimal neuropothy in my feet none in my hands.  I've been on a very controlled carb program for the previous 3 years before I got tnbc.  I had the best blood work of my life 1 month before my diagnosis...........fasting blood sugar was 87..........three years before it was 106 -115.  I had lost 50 lbs as well.  I have not taken any baby aspirin but I have been thinking about it as I have read another article about it.  I was 59 years old through the chemo.  Maybe if the tumor is growing during chemo is a good thing as the chemo likes fast growing cells and goes after them!!  LOL  Right now I'm doing the multivit, fish oil, CoQ10, Vit D, Aleve and probiotic - I'm back on my lower carb diet.  Hmmm I don't want to start anything up again!!! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rosered71169 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2013 at 6:09am
Thanks Ladies for all of your comments! I, too, was severely deficient in D3  after treatment - though my oncos never checked! My PCP let me know through the course of a regular visist/blood test. I am now on 5000mg a day as maintenence after doing the dense dose version they prescibe for several months.
I agree with Donna, that getting the "good stuff" naturally is best but, living up north, vitamin D is pretty scarce for much of the year! I have been looking at Chia and Flax seed and may try some out now that Donna provided the extra reminder!!! I have started eating Quinoa grain - very yummy with grilled veggies and very good for you! 
IDC 2-21-2012 @ age 42 TNBC, Stage IIA, Gr 3, 1.5cm Tumor Rt Breast, 3 Lymph Nodes, Neoadj Chemo, TACx6,BRCA Neg, Bilateral Mastectomy 7-30-12, 28 Rads, Bilateral DIEP 5-22-13...3 Beautiful Daughters
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 123Donna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2013 at 7:40am
Rosered,

I found organic ground flax seed and chia seeds at Costco.  

Mainy,

I found this commentary on the USPSTF report on Vitamin D.

DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mainsailset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2013 at 9:32am
Thanks Donna, exactly what we were saying eh?  Here's a link from the Linus Pauling Instit on Vit D and they have been saying for a very long time, as the chart shows, that adults should have an intake of 600 IU minimum.  http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminD/index.html#rda
Perhaps this goes back to the niggling fact that Vit D is cheap to buy otc and need not be prescribed which leaves Big Pharma out of the money making loop! Thus the folks who fund these studies can't translate success into a profit so it's easy to use the RDA amount, point to its failure to cure the world and say, 'see, told ya so' !
 
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear
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