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To do radiation or not?

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maryjahn View Drop Down
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    Posted: Feb 06 2010 at 2:33pm
I just had a meeting with my surgeon after having 4 chemos of Taxotere & Cytoxan.  After the ultrasound, he recommended 2 more chemos and then I am to have a mastectomy on March 31st.
 
Here is my question:  My MRI showed one of the tumors starting to go into my chest--when they did my biopsy they broke through to the other side, otherwise, both were considered well differentiated tumors, stage 1 with a good prognosis.  After the MRI I was told I had the start of a third tumor and the beginning of spread to the chest wall which I guess makes me stage 3.
 
The surgeon wants to do 6 weeks of radiation even though so far I have no sign of cancer in my lymph nodes or blood and after chemo may have only my primary tumor under my nipple left.  Because I am thin, this means the only kind of reconstruction I have available to me is taking a muscle from my shoulder to make a breast.  I am questioning the radiation.  I am doing numerous alternative treatments to prevent recurrence.  I am on a juicing, alkaline, high greens, no sugar, oranic diet.  I had been a vegetarian but during chemo I crave meat, so I do allow myself some organic chicken once every 2 weeks.  I am taking enzymes, having IV's of vitamin c & minerals weekly and I am doing everything suggested in Life Extensions when I have my surgery.
 
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
 
Thanks,
Mary
 
 


Edited by maryjahn - Feb 06 2010 at 2:34pm
Diagnosed TNBC 9/2009. Stage 3, Chemo TC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote srjames Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 06 2010 at 10:34pm

Mary,

I'm with you in regards to lifestyle to help reoccurance . I am doing alot of the same things.  Our #1 defense is our nutrition.   I've been doing SOME alternatives all throughout treatment.  Just remember that some of the antioxidants you are currently taking, protect the cancer along with protecting the good cells.  Its a fine line. 
My line of approach as been to allow the doc's to do what they must and I am mopping up the mess.  Detox is important, but only after the dr do their stuff.
Radiation is just one more arcenal(sp) you do to protect yourself from reoccurance.  It sucks, it wipes you out, but I had trust the stats.  Your chance of beating this thing improves alot with radiation after chemo and surgery.
Good luck to you. 
-S
 
dx 5/09.Age 41 Inflammatory BC IIIC. 4 AC 4 Taxol, Dbl 10/09. 35 rads ended treatment 12/31/09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote krisa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2010 at 12:04am
MaryJane,
since  you asked for our thoughts...if it were me, i would not even think about reconstruction, just survival and i would do whatever gave me a chance for a longer survival, ie. radiation.
i am 60, so i think about things differently than a younger woman might.
cancer sucks and the decisions we have to make suck too--big time!
take care.
Heart
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SagePatientAdvocates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2010 at 12:09am
Dear Mary,

According to our National Cancer Institute-study after study has shown that radiation therapy combined with chemo increases survivabilty and lessens the chance of recurrence..

from-http://www.cancer.gov/clinicaltrials/results/postsurgical-radiation0106

Survival Improved by Radiation After Breast Cancer Surgery

Summary

Combined data from 78 randomized clinical trials show that radiation therapy after either breast-conserving surgery (BCS) or mastectomy in women with early breast cancer significantly reduces both five-year recurrence and 15-year mortality rates. This is the first research to show that postsurgical radiation therapy in this group of patients helps them to live longer in addition to lowering their risk of local recurrence.

..............

I am sorry you have such difficult options...but it seems your chances of survival are better with the radiation..

good luck to you,

Steve


I am a BRCA1+ grandson, son and father of women affected by breast/oc-my daughter inherited mutation from me, and at 36, was dx 2004 TNBC I am a volunteer patient advocate with SAGE Patient Advocates
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TNBC_in_NS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2010 at 10:07am
Dear Mary:
Originally they told me I was stage III and I knew at that moment that I would do anything I had to in order to live.  Later I was told I was grade III, stage II, but by that time I had made up my mind to do whatever I needed to in order to live.  It was a struggle because I work in the healthcare field and know how toxic the chemicals and radiation are, but I also know that without it I may not make it? So, I did what I had to do with chemo and radiation and then I started to use my vitamins, cleanses, etc. to bring my system back up to normal levels.  I am one month out of radiation and am starting to feel like a person again, so it does get better.
 
Spend some time alone and deicide for yourself what it is that you expect to get out of this and then go for it.  Stage III diagnosis is difficult to understand other than do whatever you need to do to survive because we can survive this horrible disease.  No matter what your choice is we are here for you! Take care and know that you are not alone anymore.  Helen in NS Hug
Diag@57TNBC04/092.5cm Lquad 05/09 TCx4Radsx30CT03/01/10 FU03/31/10ClearBRCA- 01/2011 RTNBC BMX 06/14/2011~2013 clear
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M Alison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2010 at 11:22am
Hi Mary,
I agree with the others: do all that you can now to reduce your odds of recurrence.  I faced this same choice as I was in a somewhat gray area of needing radiation, but after doing the research, decided to do it.  It was not bad at all and I'm so glad I did it.  Although some docs say you can't have implants after radiation, my ps and onc did not agree.  I am also thin but got my implant (after waiting 5 mos after rad) and it looks and feels great.  I did not have any lasting skin problems from the radiation.  I don't know your specific situation and maybe it won't work for you, but talk to your ps or get a second opinion.  Even if the implant won't work, the muscle-recon is supposed to work well too.  But most important here is survival - not appearance.  I fear that all the healthy eating in the world may not be enough to stop our form of cancer - so do all you can with what medical science has to offer!
Good luck,
Alison
Age 55, Dx 9-08 TNBC, mast 10-08, stage 2, 1/6 nodes, AC + Taxol + Avastin, rad, BRCA1&2 neg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrsmurphy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2010 at 12:27pm
Hi Mary, go ahead and eat some chicken!  I totally understand your fears, I just finished my 3 months of daily radiation after my mastectomy and chemo on Thursday.  I am also thin, I am 5 ft 7 and weigh 125, so they are already saying implants should be fine but just more than one surgery to create the spacing.  They are also coming out with new implants like these gelleez (??) all the time.  But, I also agree, survival is first and foremost.

At my last appt my radiation oncologist told me my specific stats, a possibility of the cancer coming back to that area went from 30-40 % to less than 5%.  Its worth it.  Get some good lotion!

with love,
Mrs. Murphy
33yo mom to 6 dd, diag 6/09, while preg w twins! Grade 3, stage 2 tumor (4cm), 2 pos lymph, triple neg, dble mast 7/09, chemo done Nov 09, radiation done Feb 10! BRCA -, new boobs sched for July!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maryjahn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2010 at 12:48pm
In response to all of your replies regarding the radiation:
 
First, thank you everyone for your imput.  It really means alotSmile.  My concerns for radiation are because I have a heart murmer and both of my parents are dead from heart attacks.  My other concern regarding reconstruction is I have several herniated disks to my neck plus a shoulder injury and further damage to the body sounds extreme no matter where they take it from.
 
City of Hope says that they "don't do" radiation with an expander in even though this is what I want.  I don't have many choices--I am on MediCal and it's City of Hope, or student doctors at county.
 
Thanks again!
Mary
Diagnosed TNBC 9/2009. Stage 3, Chemo TC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maryjahn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2010 at 12:52pm
Hello srjames,
 
Thank you for your input!  I was told that the chemo only does it's job for 48 hours and then it's just toxic waste in the body to be eliminated, so I was advised to not take antioxidants during a 3 day period-before, during, after and then resume.  One of my tumors disappeared and the larger one I am still working on, so chemo has been effective.
 
M
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SagePatientAdvocates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2010 at 1:19pm
Dear Mrs. Murphy,

first off....I deeply admire your attitude and wish you and your marvelous family many, many, many, many, many etc. decades of happiness together. I am sorry you have been through so much but you certainly have handled things with dignity, intelligence and courage.

I didn't see it in your profile and you may have discussed it before but have you had genetic counseling/testing for the BRCA mutation? If you would prefer to discuss privately, please send me a PM. And of course, if you don't want to discuss it at all, that's fine.

I am particularly sensitive to the fact that genetic testing may be difficult in a military family, which I seem to remember you are from a past post. I spoke to several women in the military at a breast cancer conference who told me that they were afraid to have BRCA testing(even though they had very heavy family histories of early-onset breast cancer) because their careers might end and their medical care compromised because the BRCA gene, at that time (this was four years ago), was considered a "pre-existing" condition. As the Church Lady would say "now isn't that special?" Smile but it ain't funny, huh. Basically they felt they had to wait to get breast cancer and then they would be covered.


In any event I am guessing (always dangerous to do) that your husband is the one in the military but I wouldn't want his career impacted by your information either. Don't know if there is any 'spillover' like that but didn't want you taking a chance if there is..

Last year the GINA act went into effect which has eliminated much discrimination in health care (but not life insurance) if you have a genetic mutation but my understanding is that the rules don't apply to the Armed Forces-

Clinical Pharmacology & Therapeutics - How Will GINA Influence ...< ="w10">< ="w20">
by LG Dressler - 2009 - Related articles
The Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act (GINA) prohibits a health insurance company or ... The legislation does not apply to members of the US Armed Forces, ... services and participation in genetic research: "Such terms include, ...
www.nature.com › Journal homeCurrent issuePerspectives



At least in 2006 this seminar "Genetics Perspectives on Policy Seminar - Genes in Uniform: Don't Test, Don't Tell" sadly explained our government's policy.

http://www.dnapolicy.org/news.past.php?action=detail&past_event_id=25

I know, from talking to a Marine recently, that there are efforts to change the policy and eliminate discrimination in the Armed Forces but I am not sure that has happened. Does anyone know?

all the best,

Steve
I am a BRCA1+ grandson, son and father of women affected by breast/oc-my daughter inherited mutation from me, and at 36, was dx 2004 TNBC I am a volunteer patient advocate with SAGE Patient Advocates
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrsmurphy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2010 at 12:12pm
Wow Steve, I didnt know it was so complicated for some.  Yes, my husband is the Marine, I am the spouse and I have had nearly all my treatments, dr appts, testing etc done in a Military hospital.  They have a genetic counselor in each one and after my diagnosis I was recommended to do the BRACA testing, and of course I agreed since I have 6 daughters!  I really cant fathom why anyone would NOT want to know, and it was an easy blood test.  Luckily it was negative, and I have no history in my family.  I always say "thy name is MURPHY!!"  To my experience no one has been turned away or had problems getting the treatments they have needed medically, and since we are Marine Corps the hospitals and health care we use is either Navy or Army since the Marines have no medical personel.  But, there is always some glitch in the system!  Its government healthcare!

God Bless,
Mrs. Murphy

33yo mom to 6 dd, diag 6/09, while preg w twins! Grade 3, stage 2 tumor (4cm), 2 pos lymph, triple neg, dble mast 7/09, chemo done Nov 09, radiation done Feb 10! BRCA -, new boobs sched for July!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maryjahn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2010 at 1:28pm
Thank you for your reply Mrs. Murphy.
 
I was given the impression that they would have to rebuild the breast after radiation not just do the implants and that once you have radiation the expanders are no longer an option.  I am hearing lots of varying information on the reconstructive side and I am so afraid of only having one option after the fact.
 
Mary
Diagnosed TNBC 9/2009. Stage 3, Chemo TC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M Alison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2010 at 1:50pm
Mary,
I believe that is correct.  The expander must already be in place AND expanded to its full size BEFORE radiation can begin.  My plastic surgeon explained that radiation affects the skin so that it is no longer as stretchy as before - and so an expander can not be used later to stretch the skin.  But he was fine with radiating on top of the full expander, he saw no problem with it and neither did my radiologist.  He said he has radiated on top of expanders many, many times and rarely has problems from it.
 
If you haven't yet got your expander or your hospital won't radiate one, you may need to go the muscle-recon route.  I've heard that this method works well for many and then you don't have the implant inside your body to worry about.   Your health is first-and-foremost!
 
Alison 
Age 55, Dx 9-08 TNBC, mast 10-08, stage 2, 1/6 nodes, AC + Taxol + Avastin, rad, BRCA1&2 neg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrsmurphy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2010 at 2:19pm
Mary, feel free to write out all your questions and concerns in a list and bring them to your radiation oncologist and also meet with a plastic surgeon, if you are not comfortable feel free to then get a second opinion.

I also forgot to mention (still have chemo brain!) that when I was evaluated and measured for my radiation treatments they were sooo thorough, measurement wise, with x rays, etc to make sure to stay CLEAR AWAY from my heart and lungs, that first time with the measurements was the longest because they were so careful and exact.  Also, since my lymphnodal section was on the left arm, that had to be raised above my head for each session, it hurt like hell to have it in the holder, but each time it actually stretched it more and more and I now have more mobility in that arm than before!  Plus, when you do the radiation, after the measuring and sharpie marks and tapes... the session are super short, like 5 minutes.

Dont be afraid of it, get second, third, heck 4th opinions if you like!  On a forum like this everyone is going to have a different opinion because each of our experiences and prognosis' are different, just remember - Its YOUR body, and YOUR life is precious!  You want to be confident in your decision.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!
Mrs. Murphy
33yo mom to 6 dd, diag 6/09, while preg w twins! Grade 3, stage 2 tumor (4cm), 2 pos lymph, triple neg, dble mast 7/09, chemo done Nov 09, radiation done Feb 10! BRCA -, new boobs sched for July!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2010 at 5:31pm
Hello Mary,

Just make sure (as somebody wrote in their response) that what you are taking does not help the cancerous cells.  We used a Naturopathic doctor so we knew what we were taking was fighting cancer cells and not helping them.

What I know about radiation I know from our oncologist, that it gives you the best chance of it not coming back.  I know that it was the harshest treatment for my wife, but everyone reacts to it differently. 

I hope you do the best and wish you the best,

Dave
Wife diagnosed 7/08 stage 2B 4.78cm with 3 nodes. 15 weeks of Adriamycin and Cytoxin, Mastectomy, 12 weeks of Taxol, and 6.5 weeks of radiation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maryjahn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 2:24am
Thank you Dave,
 
I am working with an integrative doctor and both he and my oncologist know what I am taking.  We definitely don't want to help the cancer!
 
Mary
Diagnosed TNBC 9/2009. Stage 3, Chemo TC
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