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Recurrence After Mastectomy vs. Lumpectomy

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Poll Question: If you have had a recurrence please tell me:
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
13 [30.95%]
9 [21.43%]
4 [9.52%]
9 [21.43%]
7 [16.67%]
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Joan2844 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joan2844 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Recurrence After Mastectomy vs. Lumpectomy
    Posted: Jun 27 2008 at 3:34pm
I have had a whirlwind  diagnosis of a trip-neg recurrence after only 7 months of being disease free. The doctors think this cancer was in the breast at the time of my lumpectomy, but was quiet/dormant until recently.

I'm wondering... (hind sight is always 20-20) -- If I had had the mastectomy in the first place, would the cancer have come back at all (a mastectomy would have theoretically removed all of the cancer, active or dormant)? Or, would I have had a recurrence anyway -- just somewhere else, more foreboding than in my breast?

Please understand... I am only fact finding. Not second guessing my initial treatment decision (I was not mentally ready for a mastectomy at the time) or my doctor (he has sent my slides to Harvard for second opinion; is treating me aggressively now).  I am at peace with my situation. Grateful for the treatment I've had, and that cancer has only been found in my breast so far.

I'm just wondering out loud...  Do you think trip-neg ladies should always be advised to have a mastectomy at the initial diagnosis?  We have such a high rate of recurrence. The odds are really against us. Does a mastectomy give us better prognosis? 

In my case, an initial mastectomy could have (theoretically) saved me the radiation treatments and the involved reconstruction treatment (latissimus dorsi flap) that was needed b/c of the radiated skin. 
9/06 Stage2B. Pos Nodes; Neg BRAC; TAC/Lumpectomy/Rads/Xeloda.
4/08 Local Recurrence; Mast w/ Latissimus Flap;Taxol/Gemzar/Carbo. Zometa.

NED since May 2008 :-)
www.wow-matt14.blogspot.com
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Nancy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nancy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 28 2008 at 3:04pm
Evening Joan,
 
Lori's onc told someone(not her) that he would always advise every woman to go for the mastectomy. He has seen women coming back with a recurrence in the same breast many times. Lori found this out AFTER her mastectomy, so it gave her more piece of mind.However, she had rads also. Ups the % of survival rate. Not alot. but every % is possibly years of living in her mind. Trust me, Lori and our family did extensive fact finding.  
 
Each woman has to make that decision. The only problem is the "whirlwind" that you so eloquently describe, which is what every woman experiences. They ask you to make a decision...OKY DOKEY!!!! You tell me I have cancer...throw all sorts of medical terms my direction, TNBC...what the hell is that???? Let's take that breast off...I DON"T THINK SOAngry Oh, and by the way, there will be  chemicals poured into your body, which,  if not done precisely could kill you. Get all the info you can, which..... by the way .....we don't have very much info on tnbc...so it will basically be a crap shootConfused Having said that..my friend, (my age),and Lori's bc mentor, dx TNBC 6 years ago, had a lumpectomy. So far so good. Her tumor was small, Lori's was not..and there were 2, one which they missed with an ultra sound.
 
Personally, if it were me..and it is not...I would go for the mastectomy, even if I was only 26 years old. I felt peace when Lori had hers. Our entire family felt peace.
 
So, Joan, you wondered out loud, and I answered, as the 67 year old outspoken woman that I have always been.Wink
 
Hugs,
Nancy


Edited by Nancy - Jun 28 2008 at 3:06pm
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Beth Anne View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beth Anne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 28 2008 at 9:09pm
Okay Joan2844,
 
Here is what I think.... The last thing I wanted was to have my breast cut off... Even after be dign. stage 3 with 11nods showing up on the PET scan as being positive, I still didn't want the surgeryCryCry I did chemo first and after 9 months 3 of A/C and 6 of Abraxine I was NED, so off to Paris for me to think about the surgery....
 
I thought if I am NED why go through all of that... My onc said okay if you really don't want the sugery we will just watch you, BUT because you have been off the chemo for 3-4 weeks, let me do a breast MRI just to make sure you are still NED... I say okay let's do it... UGHhhhh so the onc didn't call that night, and I went in to his office the next dayConfusedConfused checked in, and there is a lab form... looking for CA27.. I looked at my friend and said, I didn't do well on the test, he is checking for cancer markersCryCryCry So I had the blood taken and went in to his office... and yet again heard the words...THE CANCER IS BACK AND IT'S BIG!!! in just 3 1/2 weeks a tumor had grown in the breast 3cm, and a lymph nod was 4cm...
 
So the choice was made for me! I decided to have them both taken off, if and only if they would do reconstruction at the same time... So after much hassel I, at last was able to get doc's as well as a radiation onc to agree to the reconstruction... YEAH for my team!
 
Okay to make a short story long... The pathalogy in the right breast (not the cancer one) showed that the cancer had started to spread to this one as well... And just so you know the cancer tumors that had come back grew over 1cm in the 6 days between the MRI and surgery.   
 
So do I think TNBC should have a mastectomy???? as much as I want to say no, not necessary, I would have to say YES have the surgery and have a better chance...
 
This cancer is so nasty and it dosn't fight fair at all. I was told in the very begining that the mass. would only improve your chances by less then 10% I'am just not so sure in TNBC if that is trueConfused
 
Just my story Joan, I don't know if I answered your questions or not, but I tried...
 
Take care of yourself,
 
Beth Anne
Dx 5/07 DCIS Stage3 gr9 A/C x 6, Abrax x 16 Bi-Mass 2/08
Navelbine x 12, finished radiation end of July 08. DX Brain Met's 2/09StageIV
CK3/09.Brain resection4/09 WBR
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trip2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trip2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 29 2008 at 4:24am
Beth Anne and Nancy I agree with most of what you two said.
 
I had mine last year and understand "why" I had it I just can't accept it in
my heart.  It makes me so angry at c that women have to do this sometimes. I wish I could get to a point where I accept what I did and get my esteem back up where it should be.  It brings tears to my eyes just typing this.
 
Beth Anne you should have had your hard times!
 
 
 
 
 
Triple neg is so very nasty.  Hey you guys this is a poll, please vote.Smile
 
-


Edited by trip2 - Jun 29 2008 at 4:38am
Stage 2 2003
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Nancy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nancy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 29 2008 at 7:22am
Dear dear Pam,
 
I hope it wasn't what I said that brings tears to your eyesCry
 
As I said, this isn't me...it is all of you. I can't even begin to imagine the emotions that all of you experience when having to make this decision. I feel such pain when I look at my daughter of only 46 years of age, and know that she felt she had to have this mastectomy to help ensure that she would live way beyond my years. Perhaps a lumpectomy would have been all that she had to do. We wil never know that, but Lori still has so much to offer to so many people, as do all of you.
 
I feel so fortunate to know all of you and please know that when you look in the mirror, you are looking at one courageous, intelligent, loving, caring woman. So, your esteem should be through the roof!!!! Inside your body beats the heart of a real woman, whether you have your breasts or not. You had breast cancer, and your life will never be what it was before bc.
 
Every morning when you get up, look in the mirror and look directly at your eyes, and tell yourself that you are a beautiful, strong sexy woman....and...believe that every hour of every day.
 
Today is the first day of the rest of your life,
Love all of you,
Nancy
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joan2844 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 29 2008 at 7:56am
You know, I so DREADED my mastetomy, but once it was over (and I had physically recovered), I was really okay with it. The breast that was removed always felt so bad -- I thought it was left over side affect of my radiation; now I believe that breast was just DISEASED. Every day the breast ached and bothered (worried) me in one way or another. Now, it is gone and I don't have the physical aching anymore. It is a blessing.   

And... this will sound corny, but I am a strong Christian -- lots of prayer, Bible study and honestly trying to give my situation to God. Before the surgery I cried and worried about not being a "whole" woman. One day (before the surgery) I was praying and the thought came to my mind, "You are whole in the Holy Spirit." I believe in my heart that that was God talking to me, and I felt such peace in that realization.

I hate what cancer has done to me -- with a back flap and all my lymph nodes removed, I really do feel handicapped on my left side. But, I'm determined to make it through. Thanks for your responses ladies.... And yes, please do vote. The poll is mine, and I'm really interested in the results....     
9/06 Stage2B. Pos Nodes; Neg BRAC; TAC/Lumpectomy/Rads/Xeloda.
4/08 Local Recurrence; Mast w/ Latissimus Flap;Taxol/Gemzar/Carbo. Zometa.

NED since May 2008 :-)
www.wow-matt14.blogspot.com
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Joan2844 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joan2844 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 29 2008 at 7:57am
You know, I so DREADED my mastetomy, but once it was over (and I had physically recovered), I was really okay with it. The breast that was removed always felt so bad -- I thought it was left over side affect of my radiation; now I believe that breast was just DISEASED. Every day the breast ached and bothered (worried) me in one way or another. Now, it is gone and I don't have the physical aching (or the worry) anymore. It is a blessing.   

And... this will sound corny, but I am a strong Christian -- lots of prayer, Bible study and honestly trying to give my situation to God. Before the surgery I cried and worried about not being a "whole" woman. One day (before the surgery) I was praying and the thought came to my mind, "You are whole in the Holy Spirit." I believe in my heart that that was God talking to me, and I felt such peace in that realization. I am still a vibrant, useful person in this world without my breast. The only limitations that exist for me are the ones I put upon myself!

I hate what cancer has done to me -- with a back flap and all my lymph nodes removed, I really do feel handicapped on my left side. But, I'm determined to make it through. Thanks for your responses ladies.... And yes, please do vote. The poll is mine, and I'm really interested in the results....     
9/06 Stage2B. Pos Nodes; Neg BRAC; TAC/Lumpectomy/Rads/Xeloda.
4/08 Local Recurrence; Mast w/ Latissimus Flap;Taxol/Gemzar/Carbo. Zometa.

NED since May 2008 :-)
www.wow-matt14.blogspot.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trip2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 29 2008 at 10:29am
Nancy, no no, you didn't bring the tears to my eyes, just a mixture of anger at c and emotion. I tend to cry when I'm mad.LOL
 
Thank you so much for the reminders of good things, it'll get better.
I feel bad for Heidi too and all of the women young and old.
 
Lori and Heidi seem to be handling it so well, right back at life as if (almost) nothing had happened, course we don't know what's in their mind but this second time has taken me more time to recover.  I'll be fine, need more patience though.Smile
 
Hugs sweet Nancy
 -


Edited by trip2 - Jun 29 2008 at 10:33am
Stage 2 2003
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wendy2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 30 2008 at 1:35pm
OK, looking at this poll, so there are NO persons out there that have had a recurrence/mets that had a Mastectomy??? That's quite a statistic don't ya think?
Hope there are some oncs. reading this and we should let them know about this poll - and mastectomies should be recommended to TNBC patients obviously!
   OK I just saw that only TWO persons have responded to this poll - nevermind!


Edited by Wendy2 - Jun 30 2008 at 1:40pm
dx 3/06 TN, taxotere/cytoxin x4; radiation x 40; mets. to lungs, lymph nodes 3/08 - to begin chemo 4/29/08 Abx/Avas., 9/08 Avastin maintenance, 1/09 - off meds to see if Avastin causing headaches
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 30 2008 at 3:22pm
I really will be interested to see how this poll comes out.  I had a bilateral mastectomy and do not plan to do reconstruction.  When I look in the mirror, I just try to see the scar as "my badge of courage."  Thinking this way seems to help me deal with it.  My chest already had a vertical scar from open heart surgery in 1981 (to correct a congenital defect).  My surgeon, who has a great sense of humor, told me if he had extended my mastectomy scars a bit, we could have played Tic-Tac-Toe on my chest!!!!  Laughter really is good medicine!!!
60 yowf, 1/4/08 Invasive Ductal Carcinoma, Stage 1, (8mm) grade 3, Sentinal Node biopsy 2nodes removed, both negative. Triple negative, Bilateral mastectomy 1/22/08, no reconstruction, no chemo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smithlme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 03 2008 at 7:12am
My vote was the " I had a single mastecomy; cancer came back in other breast," but it was a new primary, 369 days later.  I've now had two mastectomies, failed TRAM recon, genetic testing to find out I am BRCA 2+ and had my hysterectomy/oophorectomy last Friday. Talk about a whirlwind 15 months. It's been a crash course on Cancer, treatments, tests, 5 surgeries. genetics and more medical terms than I ever wanted to know. But....I am alive. Next year I WILL celebrate my 50th Birthday!
 
Yes, hindsight is 20/20 and if I could do it over again I coulda/woulda/shoulda had bilateral mastectomies. Being triple negative with the first Cancer and BRCA 2+ threw another rock into the blender and it became crystal clear that my life was going to take a major detour...again. Second guessing ourselves is a waste of the precious energy we all have...
 
Linda
Dx 3/28/2007, IDC, 2cm, Stage II, Grade 3, 0/9 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-, Unilateral Mastectomy, DD AC & DD Taxol
Dx 3/31/08, DCIS, ER+/PR-, Mastectomy
BRCA 2+, Hysterectomy w/BSO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joan2844 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 23 2008 at 6:26am
This poll has been out there for about 6-8 weeks now. It is interesting to me that NO ONE who has indicated they had a mastectomy had the cancer come back anywhere else in their body??

Ladies... please vote. It is looking as though mastectomy is the very best option for us trip-neg ladies. I talked to my surgeon on Monday, and asked if anyone is evaluating that fact specifically for trip-negs. She is a top-notch surgeon at a respected hospital -- I was sad to hear her say no.

I truly believe that the stats about lump+rad being as effective as mastectomy do NOT apply to trip-neg patients. We have not effective treatment after chemo/surgery/rads to continue protecting us.  Other BC's do. I would bet that the small sub-set of bc patients who have recurrences after lumpectomy+rad are trip -neg patients....

PleaseExclamation vote...! Thanks.



Edited by Joan2844 - Jul 23 2008 at 6:27am
9/06 Stage2B. Pos Nodes; Neg BRAC; TAC/Lumpectomy/Rads/Xeloda.
4/08 Local Recurrence; Mast w/ Latissimus Flap;Taxol/Gemzar/Carbo. Zometa.

NED since May 2008 :-)
www.wow-matt14.blogspot.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nancy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 23 2008 at 6:45am
Joan,
I know thatI have said this several times...Lori said that her onc told someone (not her) that he would advise mastectomies. He was seeing "come backs" with only lumpectomy.
 
However, a friend of mine is TNBC, had a lumpectomy, chemo and rads. She is now 6 years out. She didn't even know she was tnbc until Lori was dx last year, and she told Lori her path report.
 
Nancy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trip2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 23 2008 at 7:05am
Nancy that was so kind of Lori to inform your friend what her pathology means.
I am amazed at the women I have met around here being a tiny rural town I've met a few and they don't have a clue.  OK is so behind the world it seems except in the two big Cities.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 10 2008 at 7:45am
Just found this post.  My husband and I were just talking about this this morning.  In hindsight I would have had the mastectomy first.  I would also advise anyone newly diagnosed tpn to consider this.  I wonder all the time if I wouldn't be where I'm at now if I would have just gotten rid of them both at the beginning.  The oncologists/surgeons are doing a disservice to us by not telling us the challanges of being TPN.  I thought this was a good thing when I was first diagnosed.  Now, I know the truth.
 
Sorry to burst the bubble.  But I had the bilateral mastectomy and just had a recurrence in the non BC breast. (its only been 7 months since my mastectomy)
 
I love these polls though, We really can gather alot of info that way.
SmileSmile
IDC 12/06, age 42
4AC,4taxotere, lumpectomy, 33 rads 8/07 done
3/08 recurrence, bil mast w/expanders
7/08 exc surgey, recurrence
8/08 removal of implant &breast skin. 25 rad
10/08 rec
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 10 2008 at 7:51am
Joan,  I have been searching for someone like you. I also had my first recurrence only 6 months after NED.  My docs told me the same thing, it lay dormant and was able to surface after treatment was complete.  In hindsight I would have had the mastectomy hands down.
 
How are you doing now?  Smile
 
 
IDC 12/06, age 42
4AC,4taxotere, lumpectomy, 33 rads 8/07 done
3/08 recurrence, bil mast w/expanders
7/08 exc surgey, recurrence
8/08 removal of implant &breast skin. 25 rad
10/08 rec
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmtrots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 16 2008 at 6:17am
When first diagnosed I was not told I had triple negative. I was only told that my cancer was very aggressive. The doctors told me it was my decision, but because of my implants a lumpectomy would be tricky. I decided to have a mastectomy (on my left side). I had a tumor about 1.5cm and just wanted it off. I had reconstruction at the same time. I didn't have a recurrence till 3 yrs out in my left arm pit.Never a problem in the other breast, knock on wood. And by my signature you can figure the rest out.
12/02 mast w/recon neg nodes A/C
12/05 5/11 pos nodes,taxotere
6/06 3 nod pos,6 wks rad'tn and Xeloda
7/07 lung met, lung surgery,Taxol and Carbo
8/08 lung mets again, Avastin and Abraxene
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 20 2008 at 2:21pm
The problem with a poll like this is that there is no choice for people who had any of those procedures & didn't get recurrence. That to me is an equally important concept.

Also to look at such a small example and make such sweeping answers scares me. If you add up the percentages, sure a larger percentage of respondents had a lumpectomy & cancer returned, but when you compare that to the numbers, it's lumpectomy: 7, mast.: 8.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 20 2008 at 9:29pm
I hadn't seen this survey before tonight. I agree with Chaya. Shouldn't this include those that haven't had reccurance? Also most on this site are fairly newly dx. It would be nice to see #'s and comparisons of those beyond 3 years.
kirby

dx Feb. 2001. Age 44
Lumpectomy

2cm. no nodes stage 1 grade 3

4 rnds AC, 35 rads
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trip2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 21 2008 at 12:30pm
Chaya or Kirby,
 
If one of you would like to set up a new poll that would be great.
 
I for some reason cannot do this at this time.
Stage 2 2003
Stage 1 2007
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