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mrsmurphy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrsmurphy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 4:25pm
BTW, chemo is made from trees and plants.
33yo mom to 6 dd, diag 6/09, while preg w twins! Grade 3, stage 2 tumor (4cm), 2 pos lymph, triple neg, dble mast 7/09, chemo done Nov 09, radiation done Feb 10! BRCA -, new boobs sched for July!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 4:51pm
Actually,

Taxol is an extract from the bark of the Pacific yew tree.
Adriamycin (Doxorubicin) comes from soil microbes (not plants or trees but 100% natural nontheless)
Cyclophosphamide is a manufactured molecule.

These are the three chemotherapy drugs used in the standard treatment for TNBC called AC/T which is a few months of AC (Adriamycin + Cyclophosphamide) followed by a few months of T (Taxol).

Scientist don't discriminate between, "natural" and "synthetic" or whatever, they only care whether it works or not. If natural or organic stuff works, they use it. If there's something that's natural or organic that isn't being used, it's probably because it doesn't work, because if it did, it'd be FDA approved and they'd pack it into a pill and sell it to you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kidzrn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 5:41pm
Yes, I would please rethink your plan. I made all the changes you made, had negative nodes and my cancer still spread to my lungs within a year of completing 6 mos of chemo (ACT). When I asked my oncologist about the return and could I have done anything different, she just said I would have been stage 4 probably within a couple of months if I had not taken the chemo. At least I had a year break and with chemo again (not near as bad this time) I am now dancing with NED (no evidence of disease) and so thankful for the chemo. My mantra was "this too shall pass" and it did....wasn't pleasant but worth since I really would like to raise my 5 year old and see grandchildren from my teenagers (in a few years, not now....LOL). Oh, and I am seeing naturopath, reflexologist and chiropractor which I believe are helping.  Don't think you are "crazy" but probably scared but with the drugs available today to combat side effects, chemo is doable!!! 
christi
2006,TNBC,Gr3 dbl mast, 4AC/4T {NED 4/07}, Lung Met 4/08, Carbo, Avastin, Taxol/Taxotere (CAT)x4, Lung Surgery 9/08, 4 CAT, then Avastin every 3 wks...NED 2/09, 2/10, 6/10, 10/10 Scans 4/11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Autumn10182001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 8:20pm
Denise, where do you get these odds from , Please
 
 "Right now, without chemo, a high grade TNBC with 5 positive nodes has something like a 30% chance of being cured by surgery alone.  That means you are 70% likely to recur (which would SUCK).  Add chemo, you are brought up to around 50-60% likelihood of cure (40-50% likely to recur), *much* better odds"
 
My onc says I only have a 30% chance of it not coming back, and a 70% chance it will.  They could not check my nodes as they were taken 10 years ago, but it was in the lymph passages of the breast, so he (actually they, two different ones told me the same thing), assumes they would be positive.  I obviously like your odds better  50% - 60% chance of a cure. 
 
 
Judy,  I have made many changes as well, I am not eating "the raw veggie & fruit diet", because I believe that sugar feeds the cancer, and fruits have a lot of sugar. However, I am eating 90% - 95% organic,  whole grain, increased veggies and fruit intake to 5 servings a day,  I only allow myself two sugared desserts a month, and two small ginger ales a month, other than that, nothing with sugar except a little bit in my first cup of coffee.  Tuna fish steaks 3 times a week, instead of my old (which I loved) rib eye steaks, and I only eat red meat once a week, vs what used to be 4 or 5 times a week. I also no longer grill anything except veggie on the bbq grill.  I am drinking more water, amd doing meditation..
 
 I am taking a number of supplements, in addition to my vitamins
 
Beet Root
Cayenne Pepper
Cinnamon
D as D3
Fish Oil Omega - 3
Flax Seed
Garlic
Ginger Root
Green Tea Extract x 2
Tumeric (450 from extract 50 from root) x 2
Wheat Grass Pills/Capsules
 
I also started exercising...  why.. Because I think it will help my body to support my immune system, which might be able to keep a few cancer cells at bay or better yet kill them. 
 
I won't say you are nuts...my friend is stage IV (cervical), and is choosing to do juicing, supplements, raw fruits and veggies only.. for 3 months and then get another scan to see if it has changed, either way...  maybe if I was stage iv i would try that, but I don't think so.  I know a few people that think the way you do....  but I am not sure that is the best decision a person can make.  I chose to do chemo and make the changes,  I have also lost 38 pounds, and would like to lose 28 more.  Just my thinking... I wish you the best with whatever decision you make... Autumn
DX2/99 Stg I,ER+PR+ Chemo lumpectomy - Neg nodes,rads, tamox,femara. DX4/09, Stg IIB /III, TNBC IDC, Grade III, 2.5CM, mastectomy. 4AC DD,12 wkly taxol,BRAC1&2Neg, Right Mast 11/25/09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 8:30pm
Autumn, my numbers are what my brain has done to 'average out' all the studies I've read and the data I'm currently analyzing from a clinical trial.  It is not taken from one article.

I've told you this before, but I think your oncologist is way wrong about your odds.  I think that if you had your nodes in, they would have been negative, and you would have been staged at IIA.    I would peg you at around at least 60% likely for a cure, if not closer to 70-75%.    You might as well listen to me, because I have great instincts.  :)    Really! 

Love,
Denise

DX 2/08@43 stg II IDC; gr2,0 nodes. Neoadj chemo, first ACx2 (fail) then CarboTaxotereX6(better). Lump, Rads done 11/08; Clodronate. False alarm queen: PetCT lung & TM marker. NED. PBM w/recon 9/10.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 123Donna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 8:31pm
I just started reading the new revised version of Anticancer - A new way of life, by Dr. David Servan-Schreiber, released Dec 31st.  In the introduction he says, "there are no alternative approach to cancer that can cure the illness.  It is completely unreasonable to try to cure cancer without the best conventional Western medicine:  surgery, chemotherapy, radiotherapy, immunotherapy, and soon, molecular genetics. . . At the same time, it is completely unreasonable to rely only on this purely technical approach and neglect the natural capacity of our bodies to protects against tumors.  We can take advantage of this natural protection to either prevent the disease or enhance the benefit of treatments."

Regarding green tea, he says, "in a group of Japanese women suffering from breast tumors that had not yet metastisized, researchers discovered that those who consumed 3 cups of green tea a day had 57 percent fewer relapses than those who only drank one cup a day."

His 3 principle of detox are:
1.  Reduce/eliminate refined sugar and white flour, which stimulate inflammation and cell growth through insulin and IGF.
2.  Reduce Omega-6s (margarine, transfats, animal fats).  Increase Omega 3s.
3.  Reduce exposure to chemical contaminants.
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 123Donna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 8:55pm
Autumn,

I was reading in the Anticancer book about cancer feeds sugar.  He says, "sugar nourishes tissues and makes them grow faster.  . .

Insulin and IGF (insulinlike growth factor), have another effect in common:  they promote the factors of inflammation, which also stimulate cell growth and act, in turn, as fertilizer for tumors. . .

Today we know that peaks of insulin and the secretion of IGF directly stimulate not only the growth of cancer cells, but also their capacity to invade neighboring tissues. . .

After injecting breast cancer cells into mice, researchers have shown that the cancer cells are less susceptible to chemotherapy when the mouse's insulin system has been stimulated by the presence of sugar. .

A new class of medication is needed to fight cancer:  medicines that reduce insulin peaks and IGF in the blood."


Edited by 123Donna - Jan 13 2010 at 8:56pm
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Autumn10182001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 9:38am
I read the orignal version of the anti cancer diet, guess I should buy the new one as well. That book is the reason i am watching sugar intake.. and the glycemic value of foods..also the reason I am doing many of the supplements i am doing and foods I am eating. Including the green tea, which i drink and take in pill form.  Most of the supplements i am taking have anti-inflammatory, properties (cinnamon,ginger,tumeric) help alkalize (Cayenne pepper,wheat grass, Omega-3) the body, or are stated to help fight cancer by helping the immune system (maitake mushroom, beet root, green tea, flax seed oil, ).
 
 Denise,  I like your odds better...obviously.. and with the exception of clinical trial averaged in.. (because I was not part of any )...   you may very well be more up on  things, as the onc is going to quote what is out there today.. and as everyone says.. those are 5 yr old stats, ..  I am very interested in what you are studying and your insticts.. , Thank you...  Autumn
DX2/99 Stg I,ER+PR+ Chemo lumpectomy - Neg nodes,rads, tamox,femara. DX4/09, Stg IIB /III, TNBC IDC, Grade III, 2.5CM, mastectomy. 4AC DD,12 wkly taxol,BRAC1&2Neg, Right Mast 11/25/09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tasoulla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 10:31am
Judy,  I have made many changes as well, I am not eating "the raw veggie & fruit diet", because I believe that sugar feeds the cancer, and fruits have a lot of sugar. However, I am eating 90% - 95% organic,  whole grain, increased veggies and fruit intake to 5 servings a day,  I only allow myself two sugared desserts a month, and two small ginger ales a month, other than that, nothing with sugar except a little bit in my first cup of coffee.  Tuna fish steaks 3 times a week, instead of my old (which I loved) rib eye steaks, and I only eat red meat once a week, vs what used to be 4 or 5 times a week. I also no longer grill anything except veggie on the bbq grill.  I am drinking more water, amd doing meditation..
 
AUTUMN: What kind of fruits do you eat daily that does not contain sugar? My mum is eating apples but i don't know the quantity of sugar contained in apples, but i believe is a natural source so is not harmful...
Why you don't use grilling? Do you mean only for meat? Do you boil meat?
How about bread? My mum is under chemo know and she doesn't like whole grain bread, only white bread because she has a strange sense of taste........
Did you started eating all healthy diet while chemo or after?



wishing you all the best!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrsmurphy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 11:38am
I just ate a pancake before reading this, and was proud it was organic flax seed and didnt have anything on it!  Now I wish I just ate a carrot!  LOL!

here is what my oncologist said, your prognosis is your prognosis, dietary research is always a fad, vitamin D is the newest fad...changing to a healthier diet is always good, but wont cure your cancer because it is what it is.

Is that just a downer?  or a dose of reality?  I dont know.  And I really am not judging anybody.  Some days Im extremely proactive in my research and motivated, meal plans, grocery lists, coupons... I have to plan around being a gastric bypass patient too (so I only can eat 1-1 1/2 cups of food every 3 hours or so)... plus 4 children, twin babies, my nanny and my husband, but then during my bad chemo days the only food I WOULD NOT throw up was bagel bites!  Talk about guilt!  What do I do?  Do I eat that "great diet" and then just vomit it up?  Or do I eat junk so I have just something in me?

again, Im not judging, Im just venting.  At least I had enough eyebrows today where I needed to pluck a few hairs!  Today is another one of those days, but Im truly thankful I have this day.

I am so grateful for all your info and to connect, I really am!
Mrs. Murphy

btw, does chemo/baby/fatigue brain EVER go away??
33yo mom to 6 dd, diag 6/09, while preg w twins! Grade 3, stage 2 tumor (4cm), 2 pos lymph, triple neg, dble mast 7/09, chemo done Nov 09, radiation done Feb 10! BRCA -, new boobs sched for July!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Autumn10182001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 11:39am
Tasoulla,  I eat fruits based on their glycemic value, here is a URL that has some info on fruits.
 
Bananas should be on the green side, the riper they are the higher the glycemic value, apples are low, I think..  raspberries, strawberries are great...they actually lower the glycemic index. In fact, (not sure this is the right thing to do), but I allow myself 2 sugared desserts a month, when I eat them, I also eat raspberries to try and help the glycemic load...
 
 
I bake chicken and fish, sometimes, I sautee meat with veggies in a wok, with a little olive oil, when we  have roasts , we baked them...  grilling meat at high temperatures is said to have carcinigens, so I don't cook on the grill any longer.
 
I tried to eat healthy whenever I could, but during chemo, i really didn't.. I couldn't for quite a while when I was on the AC, i was lucky i ate at all..  for about three weeks i ate bbq beef cubes (from the grill) and tater tots.. neither are what i would consider healthy,,, and for 3 weeks, I ate nothing but pasta.. at the time, white pasta.. now everything I eat is multigrain, inc pasta.  I love the multigrain bread... I am also eating sprout grain breads... maybe your Mom would like that..
DX2/99 Stg I,ER+PR+ Chemo lumpectomy - Neg nodes,rads, tamox,femara. DX4/09, Stg IIB /III, TNBC IDC, Grade III, 2.5CM, mastectomy. 4AC DD,12 wkly taxol,BRAC1&2Neg, Right Mast 11/25/09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 12:02pm
Mrs Murphy,
I basically agree with your oncologist - and would call it realism, not pessimism.  (don't feel guilty about your pancake!)
-Denise

DX 2/08@43 stg II IDC; gr2,0 nodes. Neoadj chemo, first ACx2 (fail) then CarboTaxotereX6(better). Lump, Rads done 11/08; Clodronate. False alarm queen: PetCT lung & TM marker. NED. PBM w/recon 9/10.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 123Donna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 7:18pm
Autumn,

I was 1/2 way through the Anticancer book when I learned they were releasing a revised version.  I decided to buy the new book and begin again.  He's updated many sections with new research so I don't think it would be a bad idea to get the new book.  I ordered mine from Amazon for under $15.

MrsMurphy,

I basically agree with your oncologist.  We can't cure cancer by diet alone, we need the benefits of Western medicine.  Even in the Anticancer book that I quoted above, the author mentions there are no alternative approaches to cancer that can cure the illness.  Instead, we should strive to improve our "terrain" (food, water, environment, mental attitude, etc) to help our bodies be healthier with a stronger immune system to fight this disease.

I always thought I followed a pretty healthy diet, but still got bc.  I agree that you can do everything you think is right and still end up with it.  I strive to eat and drink the right stuff 80% of the time, allowing myself some guilty pleasures when I need them.  We'll be celebrating my dh birthday this weekend and I'll definitely have a big piece of birthday cake.

When you're going through chemo, I'd say eat whatever you can tolerate.  During chemo all I wanted was white food (pasta, yogurt, turkey, bananas, etc.).  I love multigrain bread but couldn't tolerate it with chemo.  It was too rough on my system.  I remember eating a peach after a treatment and it went right through me.  The only fruit I could stand were bananas. 


DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 15 2010 at 1:15am
Originally posted by Autumn10182001 Autumn10182001 wrote:

Judy, I have made many changes as well, I am not eating "the raw veggie & fruit diet", because I believe that sugar feeds the cancer, and fruits have a lot of sugar. However, I am eating 90% - 95% organic, whole grain, increased veggies and fruit intake to 5 servings a day, I only allow myself two sugared desserts a month, and two small ginger ales a month, other than that, nothing with sugar except a little bit in my first cup of coffee. Tuna fish steaks 3 times a week, instead of my old (which I loved) rib eye steaks, and I only eat red meat once a week, vs what used to be 4 or 5 times a week. I also no longer grill anything except veggie on the bbq grill. I am drinking more water, amd doing meditation..

I also started exercising... why.. Because I think it will help my body to support my immune system, which might be able to keep a few cancer cells at bay or better yet kill them.


Autumn, the other day I read that cancer feeds on sugar and I got this crazy idea that an Atkins diet might help shrink tumors. I was pretty close. There are actually studies that show that it works on animals and there's currently an ongoing trial in Germany and a few cases of it working on brain tumors.

However, after reading all the stuff I've read the past few days and thinking about things a bit, I've come to the conclusion that what you're doing is just as good.

Both sugar and insuline cause tumor cells to grow. Insuline tells them to grow, and sugar feeds them. Your diet as well as exercising them lowers both.

I currently believe the Atkins diet isn't any better because even those on the Atkins diet produce sugars from proteins to maintain their blood sugar and insuline levels at the low end of the spectrum, which is where I believe you're already keeping yours.

Although exercise may help boost or maintain your immune system, I don't believe it will help it to fight your tumors because it has already malfunctioned and isn't attacking them. If it were exercising would help, but you also wouldn't have any tumors right now.

But don't stop exercising because it will help keep your blood sugar and insuline levels low which is definitely a good thing.

Antioxidants from fresh fruit won't help either, nor will vitamins and minerals (unless of course your deficient) because they'll feed your tumors just as much as they feed you. There has actually been a study where they were able to shrink brain tumors in mice by feeding them an antioxidant poor diet.

I've come to believe that a healthy diet for someone without cancer may not be the same diet that is most healthy for someone with cancer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpo72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 15 2010 at 5:05am
Hi - I just attended a lecture by the author of Anticancer: A New Way of Life.  I am following the guidance in that book. Author is David Servan-Schreiber.  I'm also incorporating changes to create a more optimal pH balance (just in case).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 123Donna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 15 2010 at 8:22am
Where was the lecture?  How did you find out about it?
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 123Donna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 15 2010 at 8:30am
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 123Donna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 8:55am
bump for a friend
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15

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