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mysunshine View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jul 10 2009 at 10:56am
Hello all; I am new to this site. My mom has stage 3 grade a t1 c n1 mo triple negative, she has refuse all surgery and all chemo. I really fear that this is not sane, she is choosing the Gerson Protocol ( I think that is the correct spelling)  diet along with mineral and oxygen treatments . Has anyone done this out there and is it really worth it!!! I'm so worries about her.

Edited by mysunshine - Jul 10 2009 at 10:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 10 2009 at 11:26am
Hi there mysunshine :)

I am sorry your mother has this horrible disease. I can already tell that she will be very blessed to have you in her life through this difficult time for her.

I have never personally heard of the Gerson? Protocol but now that I've heard of it I will definitely google it. I'm a curious person.

Sweetie, I wish I had a miracle answer for you, but I don't. I do however think that your mother will need your support no matter what decisions she makes regarding surgery or treatment plans. If she doesn't
want treatment or surgery, just please love her, support her, and accept her choice.

I am not a pro in the alternative treatment category but I have heard there are some good things out there that are helping some people.

I will keep you & your mother in my prayers.

Dawn

Age 43 at DX

DX 3-09 IDC 3.9cm

TN-Stage2-Grade3

Taxolx9, FACx2, halted TX,

Lump.8-25-09..rads x 8wks.

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mysunshine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mysunshine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 10 2009 at 11:51am
Hi Dawn, Thank you. Yes this is very hard for her, we do support her even though we don't agree; I pray for her all the time. Thank you for your prayers!!Red%20HeartMisty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 10 2009 at 12:38pm
Yes, I've heard of the Gerson diet.  It's been around a long time, maybe since the 70's.  I think they do a lot of juicing and engage in appetizing-sounding activities like coffee enemas (yum!...cut out the middleman).  Joking aside, some people swear by it, but I'm pretty sure there's not much in the way of data showing efficacy.  Still, it probably can't hurt (unless of course, being on it convinces her not to do other things with a better track record).  Does your mom have the book, 'Choices in Healing' by Michael Lerner?  I strongly recommend it. He is unusually wonderful at weighing evidence for and against all kinds of therapies, alternative and traditional.  Gerson's diet is discussed in one of the chapters on diet, as are some other popular diet-based approaches to dealing with cancer.   The book is a little dated, but still very worth reading.

As for her choice, well, it's not what I chose, and sounds pretty risky to me (as in, possibly blowing her chance to be cured by not at least having the surgery).  But we all have our paths, and we are all different.  She might have a deep understanding of what she needs, what will hurt or harm her, and this might be the right thing for her, however unconventional.    For instance, there are some cancers (like certain lymphomas) where they have learned NOT to take out the primary tumor.  In these cancers, the primary tumor actually makes a substance that inhibits growth of micro-metastases around the body.  Maybe your mom is sensing that her cancer is not curable, and that she will live longer if she basically lets it be.  We can't know what is right or wrong for any particular person.  Statistics are limited in that way.

Anyways, I'm sorry your family is going through this, and I wish you well.  As others have said, we are here to support you and your mother no matter how she decides to proceed.

Love,
Denise

**the only thing I might want to make sure of is that she knows the statistics.  That is, her chances of living 5 years with 1) no treatment, 2) surgery only, and 3) surgery and chemo.  I guess the catch is that she wouldn't consider the Gerson diet 'no treatment', so might not buy the argument.  Still, she should have the numbers in her head so she makes an informed decision.
DX 2/08@43 stg II IDC; gr2,0 nodes. Neoadj chemo, first ACx2 (fail) then CarboTaxotereX6(better). Lump, Rads done 11/08; Clodronate. False alarm queen: PetCT lung & TM marker. NED. PBM w/recon 9/10.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mysunshine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 10 2009 at 12:48pm
Thank you for the advice; her DR. said that with out the surgery or the chemo she is actually at a 5% survival rate with 3 years. Your right, she with all her convictions in western medicine  is to not do the traditional treatment. I really hope that she gets better. She is losing weight and is sick a lot; she says it is from the detoxing, but i don't really know . Thank youPink%20Ribbon for your kindness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 10 2009 at 1:02pm
Mysunshine,  I know it must be hard to watch your mother. Denise spoke so well there is not much to add. I have known several women that have chose no tx/alt. tx. Their families were freaked out about their choices. One, I am not sure she really grasped the reality of her situation and by the time she did want to do some tx it really was too late. I don't say this to scare you but accptance of others choices is difficult, especially if it differs radically from our own. Life can be a hard path. Tolerance and acceptance can be some of our hardest lessons.
kirby

dx Feb. 2001. Age 44
Lumpectomy

2cm. no nodes stage 1 grade 3

4 rnds AC, 35 rads
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mysunshine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 10 2009 at 1:05pm
so true sister, thank you Broken%20Heart
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 10 2009 at 2:30pm
Hi there mysunshine,
            I just thought I might suggest to you for you and your mother to research  Jane Plant.Amazing diet and an amazing lady.My sister started this diet of hers while she was going through chemo and I wanted to tell you this.That yes my sister was loosing a lot of weight fast since you are questioning if the weight loss is due to the cancer or the diet .But my sisters weight loss was due to the difference in the way she was eating.It is a strong possibility that the weight lose is due to your mothers change in eating habits.We all realize how hard it is to except the choice that your mother has made,but just try your hardest to be supportive of her and support her decision.That is why I am suggesting that you help her to research alternatives.Who knows.God Bless you and your mother.Lots and Lots of Huggggssss   Billie  
Billie posting for sis Betty/67/caucasion female/diagnosed 2-27-08/gradeIII/7mm/invasive ductal carcinoma/T N /clear margins/node neg/4 X's taxotere-cytoxan/36 rads/7-08 PET/CT double image/no cancer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jadesloge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 10 2009 at 4:01pm

There is a book called Christans and Cancer by a man named Mike Wilson. His wife had IBC and did a diet that sounds very much like what is described above. She did this, but ALSO did chemo and surgery. She made it nearly 5 years disease free. I just heard she has bone mets. I don't know if the disease free was from chemo and surgery and radiation or the diet. She is still going to do it this time around too, so they must put some stock in it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 10 2009 at 7:15pm
Hi again mysunshine,
       
       I have just taken the time to do a little research on the gerson diet.Oh My Goodness.From what I read that diet is gosh awful.I would be much interested to know where your mother found out about that alternative treatment.When I say this please do not think that I am suggesting for one minute for her  not to do chemo or radiation,but I am going to say this.If your mother follows that diet ,she could die from an infection faster than  her refusing to do chemo and radiation.There are too many other alternative treatments to choose from rather than that one.
 
     I do not know your mothers age but my sister was 67 when we were told that she had TNBC and that she would have to do chemo and radiation.After I did a lot of my research for her,I said to my sister that I did not want her to do chemo that I was afraid.And I will never forget her words.I have to do the chemo if I want to live,and I want to live.So within a 12 month period,my beautiful sister had a lumpectomy,chemo,radiation,back surgery,lost her husband to cancer, and then in March of 09 she had a hip replacement.I was with her all the way and It was my wish to get her healthy enough so that in the event that she should get this beast again that she would be healthy enough to fight it.And healthy she is.I have to say this one more time.My sister came through chemo better than I had ever dreamed she would.
 
      What is your moms age?Could there be other reasons that your mom chooses not to do the chemo and radiation?Could it be insurance reasons?I have a friend who is terminal from lung cancer and she has no insurance.But she swears that even if she did have insurance that she would not choose chemo.She has lost 2 sisters to ung cancer,and treatment did nothing for either of them.So I am constantly doing research for alternative treatment.She is trying the asparagus puree,another one she has found and I just recently sent her research on the oleander soup and cancer.At this time MD Anderson is doing a several trials on the oleander bush.In D'Hanis,Texas ,there is a farmer that is growing fields of oleanders for MD Anderson's trials being done right now.
 
      My sister never read on the forum,she depended on me to tell her all that she needed to know.But I can say this to you mysunshine.If it had not been for this forum and its beautiful ladies I do believe that I would have lost it.They helped me to stay strong so that I could be strong for my sister.Do you think that you could get your mom to talk with some of the ladies on the forum?If she is afraid these ladies will hold her hand as well as yours, all the way.That I can promise both of you.
 
      There are some that chose not to receive treatment,but they are usually not on here.But there is a member named Jessie that because of heart problems did not receive treatment and she is doing ok.Again try to get your Mom to talk with these ladies and they will support her in what ever way she chooses.But do your best to try to talk her out of that gerson diet thing.That one scares me a little.Lots and Lots of Hugggggsssss    Billie
 
    


Edited by billie - Jul 10 2009 at 7:17pm
Billie posting for sis Betty/67/caucasion female/diagnosed 2-27-08/gradeIII/7mm/invasive ductal carcinoma/T N /clear margins/node neg/4 X's taxotere-cytoxan/36 rads/7-08 PET/CT double image/no cancer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmayes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 12 2009 at 7:04pm
Hi MySunshine,
 
If your mum is going to use diet alone to tackle this - may I also suggest the book "AntiCancer - A new way of life" by Dr DAvid Servan-Schreiber.  A great book on the good/bad foods for cancer and other important things to consider - such as exercise and mediation (stress relieve).  Well worth the read.
 
May I also ask if she is taking Vit D3 - a good prohibitor of cancer - maybe she could ask her doc about that (My onc has me on 2000mg per day during chemo treatment -as well as calcium) - good luck to you and your mum as you work through this bump on the life road.
 
Love Debs
Debs | Laugh every day, Love every minute.
Dx Mar09 - LB IDC 4.5cm - 0 nodes. BRCA -
Cytoxin/Taxotere x4 end Jul09.
ReCon surgery March10.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 12 2009 at 10:53pm
You should definitely follow everyone else's advice out here..
Do NOT listen to me...
They are right...and I am absolutely wrong...
I shouldn't say what I'm thinking...really...
 
Oh no...
I just can't help myself....I have to say this..
 
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Stop her...she's going to kill herself...Hurry...
Get her back to her doctor NOW!
Throw a fit...lay on the floor...hold your breath...cry...beg...
Tell her that you'll be back tomorrow and the day after and the day after...
Tell her you are prepared to do whatever it takes...to save her from herself....
Look up statistics...print stuff to show her that she needs to act NOW!
Use emotional blackmail...The grandkids need her...or the grandkids "to be" need her...Plan an "intervention"..Get everyone she loves involved....
Tell her doctor what she is planning so he is sufficiently armed to intelligently explain why she MUST do this...and then get her to agree to at least review her plan with him.
 
Tell her that you're scared...that you need her here for you...that you might inherit this from her...ask her if she would be at peace if you chose this route...
 
And then...if all that fails...then and only then...accept and honour her wishes...
 
And btw I too have a book recommendation on Alternative Cancer Treatments
Cancer Step Outside of the Box by Ty M. Bollinger - supposedly very popular.. 
 
But YOU read it first...It has a real slant against traditional therapies...Drug companies conspiring to keep us just alive enough to keep needing their meds...Hmmmmmm
 
Anyway...
Not exactly what she needs right now..
 
I'm sorry you are faced with this challenge.  Usually it's the parent that has to "let go" and "trust" our children's judgement...you know as they grow into adults.
 
Thank you for coming here.  Tell your mother about us...Maybe we can help.
Love and prayers
Alene
 
 
 


Edited by alene - Jul 12 2009 at 11:01pm
DX 5/21/2008 TN 8cm TAC
Mast 12/08
Extensive Residual Lymphatic Invasion
Inop node clavicle
68 Rads
Stage IIIc
Recur 11/09 Her2+
Surgery 68 RADS
4/10 Biopsy Skin Mets TN
28 RADS
Stage IV
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mysunshine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2009 at 4:17am
To all who have been so supportive; my mom just turned 50, she heard of the Gerson diet from her Dr, not her oncologist. She says that chemo will destroy all her organs and that chemo is a poison that she doesn't want in her body; I understand both sides but hates her decision. I will refer the books that have been suggested and again thank you for the adviceGift%20with%20a%20bow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmayes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2009 at 4:53am
Mysunshine,
 
Your mum has the right to decide what she wants to do, and as a loved one all you can do is to help her through her decision and be there for support.  She knows her body better than anyone else (docs inculded) - and has to be the one to "live" with her decision.
 
Another good book she may wish to read is "The Secret", best wishes to you and her, and sending her plenty of healing energy!
Love Debs
Debs | Laugh every day, Love every minute.
Dx Mar09 - LB IDC 4.5cm - 0 nodes. BRCA -
Cytoxin/Taxotere x4 end Jul09.
ReCon surgery March10.
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Thumbs%20Upthank you 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2009 at 6:35am
Good morning mysunshine,
 
       I am not surprised to know that your mothers dr.is the one to suggest this treatment.I have a friend who was treated for throat cancer over 5 years ago and when I told him about the asparagus puree therapy that I had received in an email,he then told me that when he was going through his treatment of radiation, he asked his oncologist about an alternative. His dr. suggested the asparagus therapy for cancer.
 
      One good thing about your moms dr. suggesting this diet ,is that maybe she will check in with him from time to time to make sure that there is no infection in her body.
 
      My goodness,your mom is very young.My sister was 67 at the time of diagnosis in 08..At the bottom of my postings was her chemo taken along with radiation.and she went through with flying colors and she is in great shape now,a little over a year later.
 
      When I was doing research for my sister about chemo,I too was afraid of it and I still am.I told my sister that I did not want her to do the chemo,It is poisen and I am afraid of chemo.I will never forget her words back to me.Sis,because I am triple negative,I have to do chemo if I want to live and I WANT TO LIVE.So many on this forum have chosen to do the chemo because this is the only thing offered to them for treatment and with triple negs track record of returning and matasitizing,they want  to make sure to at least if in any way possible to get a few more years before it might return or matasitis to other parts of the body.This forum has made the scientist and the dr.s to stand up and take notice to triple negative breast cancer and in a few more years there is a possibility that treatment for triple neg will not consist of chemo.Halelua.In the event that this should happen to any of these ladies, these ladies are trying to do whatever they have to do to try to make sure that they are still around when this break through comes.
 
        Good luck to you and your mom.Please keep us informed as to your moms progress and remember we are also here for you as well..Lots and Lots of Huggggssss    Billie
Billie posting for sis Betty/67/caucasion female/diagnosed 2-27-08/gradeIII/7mm/invasive ductal carcinoma/T N /clear margins/node neg/4 X's taxotere-cytoxan/36 rads/7-08 PET/CT double image/no cancer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mysunshine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2009 at 6:47am
awww; thanks!!! Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lillie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2009 at 7:42am
Good morning mysunshine,

Just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth. I am new to this site, but not all that new to breast cancer. I was diagnosed with stage IIb triple negative BC in June 2006. 1 positive lymph node. I was 65 years young. I had a mastectomy on June 15, 2006. Began chemo on August 8, 2006. Clinical trial dose dense. ACx4 every other week, then Taxol + gymzar x 4 every other week. Finished chemo November 15, 2006. Went back to work at full time job Jan. 3, 2007. Worked two more years and am now happily retired. I am now 68 years old. My Dr., Surgeon and Oncologist were very supportive of my decisions and I have now had almost 3 years of NED.

Please tell your mother that, the surgery is difficult, the chemo is difficult, but getting NED's for almost 3 years is priceless.

God Bless and good luck with whatever decision is made.

Lillie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2009 at 8:30am
mysusnshine,
 
I was age 45 at dx.  I had 4 rrnds of AC.  I found it to be "not that bad." I continued working all thru tx and managing my household as a single mom to daughters that were 9 & 13.  I do feel that accupuncture was directly responsible for helping maintain my energy levels as I didn't start it until just after the first tx and felt a tremendous difference. I realize that we all don't respond the same to chemo but some of do sail thru it. It is now 8.5 years later. I was unwilling to take chances without some conventional meds. There is a reason they have been developed.
kirby

dx Feb. 2001. Age 44
Lumpectomy

2cm. no nodes stage 1 grade 3

4 rnds AC, 35 rads
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mysunshine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2009 at 8:33am
I know. She will not take any meds or chemo, only the diet. 
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