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Research on new therapies to limit mets

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123Donna View Drop Down
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    Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 12:23pm
Research may provide potential target for new therapies to limit metastsis of primary breast cancers.  Interesting research about a protein called "tau".

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/182239.php


DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trip2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 12:38pm
Thank you Donna, you are a jewel.Heart
 
I posted this in the TNBC News/Resource section but cannot double post so Donna was kind enough to post in the forum.  This way we have two ways of getting important info out to everyone.
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Terje View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 1:46pm
Here's what I found very interesting in this article.
Quote Dr. Martin says his team found that a popular chemotherapy drug, taxol, actually causes cancer cell microtentacles to grow longer and allows tumor cells to reattach faster, which may have important treatment implications for breast cancer patients. Their studies are continuing.

"We think more research is needed into how chemotherapies that slow down cell division affect metastasis. The timing of giving these drugs can be particularly important. If you treat people with taxol before surgery to shrink the primary tumor, levels of circulating tumor cells go up 1,000 to 10,000 fold, potentially increasing metastasis," he adds.
Once they find some drugs to prevent or destroy tau maybe Taxol will be safe, but for now it's probably a good idea for TNBC patients to avoid Taxol and use something else instead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mainsailset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 2:01pm
Yeah Terje, when I read comments from the researches on this a year ago I remember going outside for a bit to scream and then came back in the house to throwup.
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 123Donna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 2:10pm
Pam,

Thanks so much for finding this article.

Terje,

Interesting results and alarming too.

Does anyone know if there are any accurate tests in the states to find/identify circulating tumor cells?
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by mainsailset mainsailset wrote:

Yeah Terje, when I read comments from the researches on this a year ago I remember going outside for a bit to scream and then came back in the house to throwup.
Mainy, if they've known about this for a year, why are they still using AC/T as a first line therapy, and why are they using Taxol at all when there are other options?

For my cousin AC seemed to work quite well, but as we all know it can only be used for so long before the risk of severe side effects and permanent damage become too great. Why not switch to something other than Taxol after AC?

I could understand this if they just found out and haven't spread the word yet, but if they knew of this a year ago you'd think they'd investigate further and have it figured out by now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by 123Donna 123Donna wrote:

Does anyone know if there are any accurate tests in the states to find/identify circulating tumor cells?
Donna, it's been a while and I don't remember where, but I read something about some study for a new method to detect and collect circulating tumor cells in blood samples.

The study was talking about the current methods only being able to detect certain types of circulating cells and their new method being able to detect the cells that are undetectable by the current methods.
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rena View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 3:53pm
Terje or anyone, do you know why medicine seems to have abandoned CMF to A/C and others? That's what I got (actually, it was CMFVP) 23 years ago. It was delivered in lower doses once a week for a year. I had side effects, but nothing like the ones I hear about with A/C, Taxol, etc. People sometimes talk about how barbaric treatments used to be way back when (yes, cobalt treatments were indeed barbaric), but the side effects I hear about from the more-popular dose-dense chemo now given routinely sound much worse to me than what I endured. I'm just wondering if anyone knows what prompted the change and from lower doses over a long period to quicker, higher doses. Thanks. Rena
Diagnosed 9/86. 1 cm tumor, 22 positive lymph nodes. CMFVP chemo, weekly for one year. 7 weeks radiation. BRCA2-positive. Multiple attempts at reconstruction (three's a charm)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 123Donna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 3:57pm
Rena,

Excellent question.  I'm beginning to think we're all lab rats.
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 123Donna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 8:43pm
Terje,

Regarding tests to determine circulating tumor cells, a friend of mine has been researching this subject.  This is what she's found out so far:

"This is a video of the guy who edited or wrote the textbook on metastasis cell biology. He is the head of the oncological dept of a German University.
 

Anyway,  I will also try and get more info on this…testing bone marrow annually or even just blood to detect micrometastasis appears to be on the horizon, which would give such peace of mind!"

http://www.ecancermedicalscience.com/tv/?play=117


DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hhfheidi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 9:13pm

FWIW from another poster/forum on bc.org; it has generated quite a bit of discussion:

Life Extension Magazine has an article this month about two ways to test for circulating cancer cells. The article says that circulating breast cancer cells can be strongly Her2 positive, even if the primary cancer cells are Her3 negative. The Cleveland Clinic named these tests their top innovation or 2009. These circulating cancer cells CAN BE PRESENT WITH NON-METASTATIC TUMORS! This test is a way to give a prognosis and direct treatment to the tumor that could kill you. It isn't the primary tumor that is dangerous. It is the metastatic cells we have to worry about. These ctc (circulating tumor cells) are more predictive of outcome than hormone sensitivity.

This test is more reliable and more predictive of response to treatment than radiological studies. In cases where tumors appeared smaller on radiological tests, there actually was an increase in ctc. In some patients where tumors did not appear different radiologicaly after treatment, these patients actually had less ctc in their blood.

Measuring ctc can discern whether treatment is effective for individuals early on in the process. Usually, it takes months to determine if treatment is working. Those months can be crucial to survival.

 This test is also helpful in determining if someone has had a relapse earlier than they might have detected it. In a study, those who tested positive for ctc had "a 269% increased risk of relapse, and300% greater risk of death," compared to the group that tested negative for ctc. There was a "53 month difference between the time of relapse between the group. 

In a study, scientists found that all of the metastatic cancer cells differed from their primary tumor cells.  This test can provide a "genetic fingerprint" of the metastatic cancer cells and direct treatment toward the circulating cells.It can determine what enzymes the cancer cells produce to determine if a chemotherapy agent will be effective at all. This more detailed test is only done in Europe. For assistance in facilitating the advanced circulating tumor cell molecular analysis available at European laboratories, you can contact the International Strategic Cancer Alliance at 610-628-3419.

To find labs that do this ctc assay for number of circulating cells only, call 1-800-208-3444

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hhfheidi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 9:14pm
mainy--- I would have wanted to scream & throw up myself, and I didn't even have Taxol. Always something "new" to keep us all off balance...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 123Donna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 9:30pm
Heidi,

Thanks, I'll have to read that article in Life Extension Magazine. 
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MsBliss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 21 2010 at 3:43am
It has been know for quite some time that taxol increases CTCs.  About a year ago I read that taxol increases circulating tumor cells when used in the neo adjuvant setting.  I couldn't understand why it was still being used in that way--how can this fact be ignored?  They see a tumor shrink and attribute that to the taxol, but in some cases, not all,  it might mean that the tumor is essentially dissolving into the circulatory system.  I posted about this issue back then, but it didn't seem to register with anyone at the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 21 2010 at 3:52am
MsBliss, I wasn't around a year ago to see your post. If I would've known and I knew that's what they were giving my cousin and I knew what I know now, I'd definitely recommend she try something else besides Taxol.

I was searching online for 1 year or older evidence that this fact was known about Taxo and haven't found it yet, but while searching I ran across this interesting video.
Cancer Cell Microtentacles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 123Donna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 21 2010 at 10:57am
Terge & Msbliss,

Thanks for your input.  I found this video.  There are 3 parts.  The first part is about Taxol, second about Neulasta and third part about Vitamin D preventing bc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM_G-kipIlU&feature=related
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mainsailset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 21 2010 at 11:15am
MsBliss, if it's the thread I was thinking about, I certainly had a reaction and if I didn't say it at the time thank you for finding it. My fuzzy memory tells me it was about the time that the news was coming out that Adry was only effective in about 8% of the women and that the testing to determine if one had the right kind of tumor for it to work on was not available to the public but would be coming soon....as in the Fall...(how's that for a fuzzy memory?)
It all kind of hit me at once since it was in the same time frame that info was also coming out that Sutent was not working as well as hoped for.
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 21 2010 at 3:15pm
Hi Donna,

I checked out the video, and the first part on Taxol doesn't mention anything about increasing CTC levels. I'm still searching for something that references a published scientific paper indicating such.

I found this:
Tykerb Tablets In Combination With Paclitaxel

But Pawelski doesn't include any links or references to prove what he claims and although he sounds intelligent and makes sense, so do all the others who are arguing against him.

Maybe this whole relationship between Taxol, microtentacles, and metastasis is brand new and therefor there hasn't been time yet for specific studies to be done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 123Donna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2011 at 8:41am
bump
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shelly Rae Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2011 at 5:49pm
What could all of this mean for us who have had AC-T? Should we be addressing anything with our Dr.? I have an appt. at Mayo on the 20th.
4/09 age 47 Stage 3a, Gr 3,1 node micro ACx4 Tx4 Rads x 33, done Dec.1,2009 NED
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