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Vitamin D3

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Topic: Vitamin D3
Posted By: tasoulla
Subject: Vitamin D3
Date Posted: Dec 11 2009 at 5:45am
hello all,

My mum started her second cycle of dose dense( 4 taxol every 2nd week), and she had the simple test to see the Vitamin D3 levels in her blood and today she found out that she has very low levels of Vitamin D3 in her blood.
The question is, is it better to start now while she's having chemo the Vitamin D3 supplements, or after when she will finish chemo.
Does any of you had this test while having chemo or after chemo?
I'm afraid that if she will start having the supplements now that maybe will affect the activity of chemo.
Doctors don't give us enough info on this and they don't inform us properly , and it seems very serious not to have right levels of Vitamin D3.
I have discovered this alone through research and i personally recommended to have this test.The doctor didn't give us any info and they didn't advise us to have this simple test.
Can you please tell me if any of you had this test, and if yes when did your ocnologist recommended to start the Vitamin D3 supplements?

thank you all of you and wishing you all the best!!!



Replies:
Posted By: unklez
Date Posted: Dec 11 2009 at 9:54am
Dear Tasoulla,

My wife did not get tested either although her current onco has been quoted in an article to be very pro Vitamin D testing! In the absence of any direct randomized trials oncos hesitate to have patients have any vitamins or supplements while they are on chemo. That said, once we asked all oncos including wife's current onco - said Vitamin D in the form of 5,000 IU D3 is ok to take daily. It is available OTC. A little hard to find 5,000 dose but we found it on vitaminshoppe.com. Don't let the onco write a prescription Vitamin D, it is usually for D2 and at 50,000 IU to be taken once a week.




-------------
Wife Dx: Jul/09. Age: 37. Size: 3cm. BRCA: -ve. Lumpectomy: Aug/09. Micromet 1/9 node. Chemo Start: Sep/09. E5103. DD ACB-> DD Abraxane (Taxol reaction). Zometa (S0307). Canadian Fraction Rads.


Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 11 2009 at 10:11am
Tasoulla:  I had my 2nd D test taken while on a trial and was 4 weeks into it. It came back very low and the onc immediately wrote me a script for a D @ 50,000 IU (unfortunately it was the D2, lesson learned) but in discussions with him he brought up that the D is the only vitamin that actually enhances chemo efffacacy so it was important to get my levels up! The D also enhances the effectiveness of radiation as well.
 
Beyond the interation with chemo, you & she have the whole body to consider, the D helps the body accilmilate calcium and is good for bone health and as we have learned, chemo is very hard on our bones so the D can be a good up front warrior for us while undergoing chemo. It is also good for the heart and is generally seen as the traffic cop which directs many of our 'components' to work at their optimum level, not to mention it helps our immune system.
 
So, not to critique unklez comments, but rather to add a different experience.
 
Please don't laugh, but here is a link I just found that indicates adding high dose D for prostate patients undergoing chemo,  http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/news/8525697700573E1885256BC000587596 - http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/news/8525697700573E1885256BC000587596  


-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: tasoulla
Date Posted: Dec 11 2009 at 10:50am
mainsailset? is it better to take Vitamin D or Vitamin D3? What Vitamins your oncologist recommend you and did you started them while having chemo?Do you know if Solgar Vitamin D3 is good or can you make a better recommendation?
My mums oncologist didn't recommend anything about all these.
I didn't understand what exactly you mean about D2.

thank you and waiting for your reply,
tasoulla

thank you


Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 11 2009 at 11:08am
Tasoulla:  here is the link to the Vitamin D Council which I have put into my 'favorites' list and check daily. It will do a much better job than I can of describing the difference of D2 and D3 and will tell you why we TNBC patients should be using the D3.
 
Often you'll find that a D blood test will come back and it will be lumped together in a single number, vs some labs will break out your D3 and D2 in the results. Regardless, it's the combined number that is important to you.
 
Women who have TNBC are more likely to have lower D levels at the time of dx than other bc patients. D is very important to us.
 
I use a Vitamin D3 gel cap & I combine it with a Cal-Mag pill daily. I did not have luck with the liquids but I see many members here have had good luck. The only way you really know if you're making headway is if you have the Vit D included in your mom's regular blood work.
 
Your goal is to get your mom's levels above 50. Your onc may disagree with that, but read the Vitamin D council site carefully and you will likely find that I'm undersuggesting...there are now opinions out there suggesting that cancer patients have a higher level, from 60-90.
 
Here's the link   http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/ - http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/  


-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: unklez
Date Posted: Dec 11 2009 at 3:02pm
Tasoulla,
Yes Solgar D3 5K is good.



-------------
Wife Dx: Jul/09. Age: 37. Size: 3cm. BRCA: -ve. Lumpectomy: Aug/09. Micromet 1/9 node. Chemo Start: Sep/09. E5103. DD ACB-> DD Abraxane (Taxol reaction). Zometa (S0307). Canadian Fraction Rads.


Posted By: tasoulla
Date Posted: Dec 11 2009 at 3:34pm
thank you unklez and mainsailset.
is it better to take the vitamin d or the vitamin d3 or and both of them?



Posted By: unklez
Date Posted: Dec 11 2009 at 4:20pm
Dear Tasoulla,
D is of 2 types - D2 or D3. Take D3 for now.



-------------
Wife Dx: Jul/09. Age: 37. Size: 3cm. BRCA: -ve. Lumpectomy: Aug/09. Micromet 1/9 node. Chemo Start: Sep/09. E5103. DD ACB-> DD Abraxane (Taxol reaction). Zometa (S0307). Canadian Fraction Rads.


Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Dec 11 2009 at 6:59pm
You want D3.  If it just says Vit D, make sure the ingredient is Cholecalciferol, which is D3.

I also didn't get tested until after chemo treatment ended.  I wish I would have known the importance of D3 and tested at dx.


-------------
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: MsBliss
Date Posted: Dec 12 2009 at 3:31am
I was tested, several months after surgery.  My level was 16.  Problem:  no one told me that I had been tested or that my level was deficient!  Not my surgeon, or my oncologist.  No one even bothered to update me or make a recommendation.  They were happy to run the test, bill my insurance, but it was not important to let me in on it.  When I found out what had happened, my onc prescribed D, but didn't tell me it was D2.  So I was taking D2 for 4 months, and not corrected for it.  It probably took 7 months to finally get my levels to an adequate level due to this delay by my health providers.
This was one of the reasons why I decided to take control of my health.  Vitamin D is so critical, and for some reason, the ones who are supposed to be taking care of us are simply not interested in this critical issue.
Sorry about my cynicsm, but every time I think about this issue I get worked up.


Posted By: unklez
Date Posted: Dec 12 2009 at 9:40am
Well they don't make as much money if more and more people just get OTC D3, do they?





-------------
Wife Dx: Jul/09. Age: 37. Size: 3cm. BRCA: -ve. Lumpectomy: Aug/09. Micromet 1/9 node. Chemo Start: Sep/09. E5103. DD ACB-> DD Abraxane (Taxol reaction). Zometa (S0307). Canadian Fraction Rads.


Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 12 2009 at 10:06am
unklez, as usual you are succinctly correct!

-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: tasoulla
Date Posted: Dec 12 2009 at 11:10am
i have talked to the oncologist and he recommended to take some tablets which include both calcium and vitamin d3. he told us that it is better to take vitamin d and calcium together and not vitamin d3.
i'm confused now, as the blood test showed deficiency of vitamin d3.


Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Dec 12 2009 at 11:19am
MsBliss,

I have my 3 month post chemo followup later this month.  I'm going to ask my onc if I was tested at dx.  I don't think so because when I told her I tested myself (using the in-home test ordered from the Vitamin D council website) she acted surprised to learn my results were so low (19).  It will be interesting to know if they knew at dx and if they did, why wasn't I told.


-------------
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 12 2009 at 11:19am
Tasoulla, please do go over to the Vitamin D Council webpage that I put up the link to. It is important to take the Vit D3 in a gel cap form and that you simultaneously take Calcium & Magnesium. I take a gel cap of D3 daily with food and a big white pill that combines the Calcium & Magnesium together for me, it's called a Cal-Mag. The magnesium is every bit as important as the calcium.
 
I think I would confuse matters if I gave you the manufacturer's name at this point as I don't know what brands are available to you in Cyprus and don't want to create a hardship. But please get the GEL (or some ladies will tell you the liquid) don't do a plain powder pill for the Vitamin D3.
 
PM me if I can help out.  Just in case, here's the link again, just left click on it and then make use of the menu list on top lefthand side of page  http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/ - http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/


-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: unklez
Date Posted: Dec 12 2009 at 12:18pm
Tasoulla,

You should take:

D3 5000 IU
Calcium 1000 mg
Magnesium 400 mg

Ideal to take these in liquid, fizz or gel form. Powdered, tabs or capsules are ok too but they may be harder for you to take and absorb.




-------------
Wife Dx: Jul/09. Age: 37. Size: 3cm. BRCA: -ve. Lumpectomy: Aug/09. Micromet 1/9 node. Chemo Start: Sep/09. E5103. DD ACB-> DD Abraxane (Taxol reaction). Zometa (S0307). Canadian Fraction Rads.


Posted By: dmwolf
Date Posted: Dec 12 2009 at 12:46pm
Whoa Nellie.   I haven't seen the data yet, but I heard from someone that taking a lot of vitD if you are NOT very deficient could be dangerous (as in, increase cancer rates).  Don't assume that any substance that acts as a growth factor is safe at high doses.   Be cautious.   Those of you downing this stuff like it's water whether or not you have low D levels should reconsider.    The guy I talked to (hearsay, I know) said that there was a biphasic response.  He said that for women who are not severely deficient,  there is a biphasic risk curve, meaning a dip of risk in the middle of the range in ingestion and higher risk on the edges.    I'll see if I find him again and locate the source. 
 
d


-------------
DX 2/08@43 stg II IDC; gr2,0 nodes. Neoadj chemo, first ACx2 (fail) then CarboTaxotereX6(better). Lump, Rads done 11/08; Clodronate. False alarm queen: PetCT lung & TM marker. NED. PBM w/recon 9/10.


Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Dec 12 2009 at 12:54pm
Denise,

Please try to get more info. 

Donna


-------------
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: MsBliss
Date Posted: Dec 12 2009 at 4:39pm
Exactly--Vitamin D2 is extremely cheap to make but they charge 10 times more for it than D3.  It is criminal.

Originally posted by unklez unklez wrote:

Well they don't make as much money if more and more people just get OTC D3, do they?





Posted By: MsBliss
Date Posted: Dec 12 2009 at 4:47pm
And I should add that the D2 from my pharmacy has a monograph printout that comes with it that says:  "Also called Max D3"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by MsBliss MsBliss wrote:

Exactly--Vitamin D2 is extremely cheap to make but they charge 10 times more for it than D3.  It is criminal.

Originally posted by unklez unklez wrote:

Well they don't make as much money if more and more people just get OTC D3, do they?





Posted By: MsBliss
Date Posted: Dec 12 2009 at 4:55pm
Yes, please let us know Denise.  This is probably a possibility for those that are not deficient.  But Vitamin D is not really a growth factor as much as it is a regulator of cell division, in that it normalizes this process and prevents transcription errors.  Too much can cause kidney toxicity or too much calcium in the blood, but I have not heard of it being mutagenic--but megadoses of anything--who knows?

Originally posted by dmwolf dmwolf wrote:

Whoa Nellie.   I haven't seen the data yet, but I heard from someone that taking a lot of vitD if you are NOT very deficient could be dangerous (as in, increase cancer rates).  Don't assume that any substance that acts as a growth factor is safe at high doses.   Be cautious.   Those of you downing this stuff like it's water whether or not you have low D levels should reconsider.    The guy I talked to (hearsay, I know) said that there was a biphasic response.  He said that for women who are not severely deficient,  there is a biphasic risk curve, meaning a dip of risk in the middle of the range in ingestion and higher risk on the edges.    I'll see if I find him again and locate the source. 
 
d


Posted By: tasoulla
Date Posted: Dec 13 2009 at 4:17am
Mainsailset: Did you take the Vitamin D while in chemo or after? Did you received also and Omega 3?



Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 13 2009 at 10:42am
Tasoulla, my blood test just before chemo started came back at 26 which the Univ. Hospital coordinator told me was just fine, so I did not supplement initially. Then 6 weeks in I asked for a 2nd test to be taken, it came back 19 and my onc wrote a script for Vit D2 50,000 IU a week. I took that for 4 weeks and my level went up to 28. At that point insurance stopped paying and I was pretty sick so I stopped taking the D until after I was through with chemo.
 
I didn't get any Omega 3. The Univ. Hospital I am with discouraged any supplements at all, even frowned on a multi vitamin. I didn't have an advocate like you to fight with me and so pretty much gave up and let the days drag on. Once I was out of chemo and survived what I now think was a case of Swine Flu, I became a tyrant on this stuff.


-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: tasoulla
Date Posted: Dec 14 2009 at 9:45am
Mainsailset, my mum she's very weak,tired, and has a lot of bone pains now from chemo and i'm trying to help her as much as i can. Doctors are not very helpful and it seems like if you don't search things if you are not strong to fight and research of course every detail, every test, every info, they will not help you.
Her onco. didn't mentioned anything about Vitamin D or Omega 3 and i have search it by myself.
Most of the doctors hesitate to write anything while chemo because they are afraid that may cause any implications while having chemo.
So, the final decision is in our part to think and choose what is best.
I think at the moment while having chemo best is to have Vitamin D and after when finish chemo start Omega 3 which will help the heart and the immune system to come in normal stage.
Do you take any Omega 3 pills now?


Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 14 2009 at 10:38am
Tasoulla, it's a rough time for you and your mum. Don't necessarily discount her fatigue as just one of the side effects of chemo, it's important to talk to her onc about it and see if perhaps this is a more serious reaction to the chemo bombardment than is acceptable.
 
If I were to do it all over I would definitely take a Vitamin D with the chemo. I would also ask for Vit B12, maybe even a shot. I noticed that I was supposed to get one with my clinical trial but the doctor for one reason or another did not follow through. I think it would have helped.
 
The weakness can also be because she is suffering from low red blood counts (anemia), I found my muscle mass just disappeared and as long as I was on chemo I couldn't build it back up. So check the red counts, maybe even an iron infusion is called for. Whatever the ill feelings that she is having are real, they should be addressed by the doctor.
And yes, I do take the Omega 3 now. I will tell you also that if she can spend time out in the rooms that are naturally lit, direct sunlight for extended periods of time is not recommended while on chemo, but just moving out to a day room can help tremendously. Also, the ladies here have found various drugs that help with the bone pain, that too can be addressed with her doctor.
 
I'm lazy (sorry) so ask that you check out the Search button at the top of page, type in bone pain and I'll bet you'll find several threads where women have discussed what works and what doesn't.


-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: Lillie
Date Posted: Dec 15 2009 at 12:57pm
I just found all of these posts about Vitamin D a couple of weeks ago. Wish I had know this 3 years ago.

While having a follow-up with Doc after blood work done last week to check liver function and cholesterol levels, etc. I mentioned the Vitamin D subject to him. He said that would be automatically included in my yearly exam blood work in June 2010. I requested it be done that day, and he agreed. The results came back last Friday. My level of Vitamin D was 17. Doc wrote prescription for Vitamin D which I picked up Saturday. I quizzed the pharmacist concerning the Vitamin D2 or D3 when I retrieved the prescription. He assured me it was Vitamin D3. There was nothing on the bottle or in the literature to say one way or the other... I called back this past Monday and talked to another pharmacist. She checked and assured me that I did "Indeed have Vitamin D3".

I should be feeling like a million bucks soon. My doctor wants to see mine in the 60 range. 17 to 60 is a ways to go.......

Thanks for all the information on this particular thread. It is a good thing to know about the Vitamin D issue.

Lillie

-------------
Dx 6/06 age 65,IDC-TNBC
Stage IIb,Gr3,2cm,BRCA-
6/06 L/Mast/w/SNB,1of3 Nodes+
6/06 Axl. 9 nodes-
8/8 thru 11/15 Chemo (Clin-Trial) DD A/Cx4 -- DD taxol+gemzar x4
No Rads.
No RECON - 11/2015-9 yrs NED


Posted By: krisa
Date Posted: Dec 15 2009 at 3:03pm
lillie,
it took a year, but my level is now at 60...my first blood test was 21..


Posted By: Lillie
Date Posted: Dec 15 2009 at 3:33pm
Krisa,

Would you believe it; my doctor gave me a years worth of refills on my script. Sounds like he expects it to take me a year to get to 60 also.

That is interesting.

Lillie

-------------
Dx 6/06 age 65,IDC-TNBC
Stage IIb,Gr3,2cm,BRCA-
6/06 L/Mast/w/SNB,1of3 Nodes+
6/06 Axl. 9 nodes-
8/8 thru 11/15 Chemo (Clin-Trial) DD A/Cx4 -- DD taxol+gemzar x4
No Rads.
No RECON - 11/2015-9 yrs NED


Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 15 2009 at 3:38pm
Lillie, you got D2. We've all looked high and low and there isn't a Vit D3 prescription. The D3 is all over the counter, I had to badger my pharmacist before he would relent and tell me it was really D2. The 50,000 IU script is generally only good for 4 weeks with the insurance companies, they wanted me to retest before they would pay for an additional script for 4 weeks, but all a moot point once I found out the were giving me D2.


-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: Lillie
Date Posted: Dec 15 2009 at 3:53pm
Thanks Mainsailset,

In reading some of the prior post on this thread that was what I was worried about.

What do I look for in the over-the-counter section to be sure I am getting the correct vitamin (D3). Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I'm glad I posted this today since I just began taking them.

Thanks,
Lillie

-------------
Dx 6/06 age 65,IDC-TNBC
Stage IIb,Gr3,2cm,BRCA-
6/06 L/Mast/w/SNB,1of3 Nodes+
6/06 Axl. 9 nodes-
8/8 thru 11/15 Chemo (Clin-Trial) DD A/Cx4 -- DD taxol+gemzar x4
No Rads.
No RECON - 11/2015-9 yrs NED


Posted By: Lillie
Date Posted: Dec 15 2009 at 4:38pm
Dear Mainsetsail,

My Dummy, (sometimes I scare myself)

A few weeks ago I read information about D3 and decided I would get some OTC to try. Bought Nature's Bounty D-2000IU D3 softgel. I took them for a few days and quit because I wasn't 100% sure I needed them. Forgot about them. They were just sitting there in my cabinet staring at me everytime I opened the cabinet door for things I use everyday.

After that is when I had blood checked and found out I really do have a problem and got the prescription and all that fal-de-ral. Anyhow, I'm sure I saw some stronger ones at the drugstore. Will check tomorrow and see if I can find the 5000IU D3 softgel.

Thanks,

Lillie

-------------
Dx 6/06 age 65,IDC-TNBC
Stage IIb,Gr3,2cm,BRCA-
6/06 L/Mast/w/SNB,1of3 Nodes+
6/06 Axl. 9 nodes-
8/8 thru 11/15 Chemo (Clin-Trial) DD A/Cx4 -- DD taxol+gemzar x4
No Rads.
No RECON - 11/2015-9 yrs NED


Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 15 2009 at 10:53pm
Lillie, why don't you try sticking with the 2000 IU soft gel for now. Take them through their course and then see what your blood levels are next time you go in for a checkup. Are you going in every 3 months or are you past that stage? The 2,000 is still a high doseage. Like most things it's good to keep in mind balance, get the calcium and mag to go with and don't try to correct all this overnight.
Good luck and glad you saw these in your medicine cabinet, oh for a good use for all the pills that now inhabit mine that I'm not taking. sheesh


-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: unklez
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 12:34am
Lillie,
I'd recommend slightly differently. Take 2 of the 2000 gels daily. Do take the calcium and magnesium as mainy suggested.



-------------
Wife Dx: Jul/09. Age: 37. Size: 3cm. BRCA: -ve. Lumpectomy: Aug/09. Micromet 1/9 node. Chemo Start: Sep/09. E5103. DD ACB-> DD Abraxane (Taxol reaction). Zometa (S0307). Canadian Fraction Rads.


Posted By: tasoulla
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 8:17am
Dear all,
i have found in pharmacist the Solgar Vitamin D3 but the pharmacist told me it is better to be consumed with calcium.
There is Solgar Vitamin D, and another Vitamin D3.
My mum's result of Vitamin D3 is under 7, so i'm worry that it is very low and which is the best dose.
The thing is if it is wise to use Vitamin D3 or Vitamin D while having chemo.
Unklez why it is good to use with Vitamins Calcium and Magnesium?

All the best to you all!


Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 10:33am
Tasoulla, is her level of D2 & D3 combined at under 7 or is it just hte D3? Please DO go to the Vitamin D council website, and you need to combine the Calcium and Magnesium to get the maximum absorbtion for all 3. Often a Vit D reading on the same bloodwork will show she has low Calcium & Mag. It is terribly important that you combine them each day. But please, again, go the Vitamin D Council website.

-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: Lillie
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 11:08am
Thank you Mainsetsail, Unklez and Others,

I will let you know if I decide to take 1 or 2 daily of the 2000D3's I already have.

Mainy, What strength calcium/magnesium do you take? Don't want to OD on any of this, but feel that I need to start at a level that will be helpful.

Again, thanks,

Lillie

-------------
Dx 6/06 age 65,IDC-TNBC
Stage IIb,Gr3,2cm,BRCA-
6/06 L/Mast/w/SNB,1of3 Nodes+
6/06 Axl. 9 nodes-
8/8 thru 11/15 Chemo (Clin-Trial) DD A/Cx4 -- DD taxol+gemzar x4
No Rads.
No RECON - 11/2015-9 yrs NED


Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 11:31am
Hi Lillie, great question and one I struggled with when I set out on my Vit D3 adventure. I ended up taking a combo pill which is 1,000 mg of Calcium and 500 mg of Magnesium. That is equal to 100% of RDA for the Calcium and 125% for the Magnesium. I also take a multi each day so I'm assuming I'm taking 200% RDA of Calcium and 250% of the Magnesium daily. I really don't want to go over that.
You and I are similar in age and I know the Calcium, Mag & D are of great interest to me to help my poor old bones after putting them through chemo not to mention all the other benefits.


-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: hockeymom01886
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 1:18pm
My vitamin D level was at a 7 when it was checked.  It should be between 30-100.  My doctor put me on 50,000 units of vitamin D per week for 10 weeks.  This has happened twice and he said that I need to take 2,000 (it was only a 1,000 the first time) units of vitamin D per day forever and have my level checked regularly.  Now that my level is going up, I feel so much better (not as achy) and will be sure to take the supplement.  Low levels of vitamin D are common with TNBC patients and recurrance is higher if your level is low.  So, be vigalant in taking care of yourself!


Posted By: tasoulla
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 2:12pm
Dear hockeymom,
did you started the vitamin d while on chemo and how often you have blood work?
your doctor  told you to take vitamin d or vitamin d3?


Posted By: tasoulla
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 2:19pm
dear mainsailset,
thank you for the advice for checking the vitamin d council website. i'm searching it, and i will look for the calcium and magnesium also.
the report of my mum's blood work results indicates that the result is for 25-OH VITAMIN D3 and the result is <7,6 and the normal value is >30.
Doctor's don't inform us round t vitamins subject and is serious usefulness.
They don't give attention and they don't inform us.
He wrote us a prescription and we'll take it from the hospital and i will let you know what will be.

All the best !!


Posted By: hockeymom01886
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 2:29pm
Hi Tasoulla- My vitamin D level was not checked until after chemo (Nov08).  It was actually my request and my onc had no problem doing it.  When I found out that I was so low and knew there were many articles written on the link with BC and TNBC, I was pretty upset.  My doctor said that nothing had been confirmed about this link thus far.  Anyway, my level was checked 10 weeks after the first high dose and not checked again until Oct09.  I probably should have had it checked earlier and didn't realize that was the reason that I was feeling so lousy.  In Jan10, I will finish the second high dose round and will again have my level checked. 


Posted By: hockeymom01886
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 2:31pm
I forgot to mention that it said Vitamin D not D3 on the prescription bottle.


Posted By: hockeymom01886
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 2:40pm
Krisa- Can you tell me what kind of vitamin D you are taking and how much per day?


Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 3:12pm
hockeymom: PLEASE remember that the script the doctors give is Vit D2. D3 is only available over the counter and it is the D3 that is the best for us. please go back on this thread and pick up the link to the Vitamin D Council and go there as it is a very complete set of information and will give you links to reports that you can then give you doctor about the links of Vit D and breast cancer.
 
Here's the link directly tothe breast cancer page:   http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/cancerBreast.shtml - http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/cancerBreast.shtml


-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: MsBliss
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 3:34pm
hockeymom, it is very distressing to keep seeing this type of negligence amongst the cancer establishment, esp our oncs, that vitamin D is a "soft association" with bc and other deadly debilitating conditions.  I was not checked, then when they did check me, my levels were severely deficient.  Yet, no one felt the need to tell me this and when they finally revealed it to me, they gave me D2, not D3, for four months!  No problem billing me or insurance for the test though, just didn't bother to tell me what was going on.  It certainly chafes at my faith in the ability of the system to help me get well.


Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 3:45pm
MsBliss - Amen

-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 4:35pm
MsBliss and Mainy,

I too was not checked until after chemo and then given the 50,000 unit prescription for D2, which I never took.  Instead I've been taking the OTC D3.  So glad I have this forum to learn about the importance of D3.


-------------
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: Autumn10182001
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 8:51pm
Talked to my onc yesterday about the vit D... he said no to the prescription, to  continue on my 3000 a day, and we will retest in 4 weeks.. he also said that the Zometa that I will be getting once a year, will help bring up the vit d3 number.. I was 12 when tested, after chemo.

-------------
DX2/99 Stg I,ER+PR+ Chemo lumpectomy - Neg nodes,rads, tamox,femara. DX4/09, Stg IIB /III, TNBC IDC, Grade III, 2.5CM, mastectomy. 4AC DD,12 wkly taxol,BRAC1&2Neg, Right Mast 11/25/09


Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 10:11pm
Autumn,

Keep us posted on your D3 level when tested again.  I'm curious to see how much your D3 level goes up.

Donna


-------------
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 17 2009 at 10:30am
Here's a new article from the Vit D Council webpage that gives a good background on D2 vs D3 and why only the D2 is available by script.   http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=54370 - http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=54370


-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: tasoulla
Date Posted: Dec 17 2009 at 11:36am
Hi Mainsailset,
i have read the article for Vitamin d and is very interesting.
Vitamin D3 plays an important role but unfortunately doctors don't give the appropriate attention...!

Hockeymom: How long it took for your Vitamin D to go to the appropriate level? Did you had Vitamin D or D3?

All the best to you all!


Posted By: hockeymom01886
Date Posted: Dec 17 2009 at 12:16pm
Tasoulla- It took 10 weeks for my vitamin D level to go from 7 to 31 the first time my level was low.  My doctor said that this is a very low normal level.  They consider 30-100 normal.  I did read in some cancer articles that cancer patients should have at least a 60 though.  In Oct09, my level was 9 and it will be tested again in Jan10.  I do plan on getting an over the counter vitamin D3 supplement since it appears that your body absorbs it more efficiently than D2.  My doctor told me that I should take 2000 units (did not say what type of D to take) a day for life after the 10 weeks is up.  Right now the prescription that I am taking is for 50,000 units of D2 once week for 10 weeks.  (It doesn't say D2 on the prescription but I guess when you get a prescription for vitamin D, it is for D2 which I didn't know until one of the repliers to my message told me.  It is a good thing that we can get more educated thru these forums (and vent)!

-------------
dx 6/08 at 52yrs, Stage2B 1/8Pos nodes; TAC/Lump/Rad/Zometa.Diagnosed with Atypical Lobular Hyperplasia 8/10. Had surgery to remove. Dbl mast 3/11. More abnormal cells (ALH)found.


Posted By: tasoulla
Date Posted: Dec 19 2009 at 3:40am
Hi all,
My mum's doctor wrote her a prescription to take Vitamin D supplement, Megahealth Vitamins- Calcium+ Vitamin D.It is effervescent tablets, and it contains, calcium and vitamin D3.
One tablet includes 200IU of Vitamin D and 500mg of calcium and is to be taken twice a day.
I don't know but they don't seem to be much of help to increase the level of Vitamin D3 in her blood.
If i go to pharmacist and ask for Vitamin D3 do i have to take and another bottle of supplement for Calcium so to be better absorbed?

Thank you to you all!



Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 19 2009 at 10:47am
Tasoulla:  PLEASE note that here in the states the vit D3 is NOT available by prescription so unless they are different in Cyprus you have gotten a prescription for vit D2. The D3 gel caps are what you're looking for. I also note you don't mention the Mag, and she's GOTTA have that.

-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: tasoulla
Date Posted: Dec 19 2009 at 10:55am
Dear Mainsailset,
Thank you very much for your reply and all the advise which is very helpful.
I have seen the website of vitamin council, but with doctor's prescription i'm very confused.
I will go tomorrow at the pharmacist and i will ask to buy Vitamin D3 5,000 IU softgel, Calcium and Magnesium.Is there any particular brand you have taken and is good you can recommend to me?
Three different bottles.Is this correct? My mum's doctor doesn't seem to know much round these and he's very confusing.

Thank you very much and all the best!


Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 19 2009 at 11:16am
Tasoulla: I'm no doctor so can't give you advice on the amount for your mum to take that's why the vitamin D council is so helpful. The soft gels come in a variety of doseages, most of us here are taking more than the RDA and I commonly see the women here going with 2,000 IU. Some women here are going with 4 or 5,000 IU but all under the supervision of doctors blood work. Please note the toxicity articles at the Vit D Council website. Whatever she takes must be in tandem with the Calcium and the Magneseium. As I've noted previously in the thread my pill combines 1,000 of the Calcium and 500 of the Magnesium.
 
I don' know what brands you have over there so would fall short of giving you a recommendation of a particular brand and I'm sure your local vitamin store or pharmacist would have better info anyway.
 
So, no I use 2 bottles. One for the D3 and one that combines the Calcium & Magnesium.
Good luck with this. ps, chemo is very hard on our bones so this is very important to get going with.


-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: Scott
Date Posted: Dec 19 2009 at 9:02pm
Hi everyone, need your guys help...my beautiful bride had chemo #3 friday & while we were there, I asked the onc about testing my bride's vd level. He quickly agreed & said that in his opinion it does make a difference. Now to the help, we get the results back monday & then meet with our obgyn on tuesday to ck in on our soon to be "warrior princess", so I need to clear it with the baby doc too. Am I thinking right on V3 (gel or liquid form only) along with mag/calcium combo (probably not to exceed RDA)? 
Scott


Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 19 2009 at 9:12pm
Scott, the Vit D Council suggest going beyond the RDA. Depending on where her levels are you may want to go toward the 2,000 IU range rather than the lower RDA. Since we're well into the winter months with sunshine at its lowest point and she has an extra demand on her system (don't forget chemo is tough on the bones as well and the D/Cal/Mag helps that) it's worth pushing the docs for the most allowable. Hopefully you'll be able to get her D monitored regularly now and that will help considerably.
 
In case you want a second source, here's the Linus Pauling Institute recommendation of the 2,000
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminD/index.html#lpi_recommend - http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminD/index.html#lpi_recommend
there's lots of discussion on the home webpage, well worth the time of going through it


-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: Scott
Date Posted: Dec 20 2009 at 12:36am
Thank you Mainsailset...just to make sure, 2,000 IU range on the Vit D? How much for the Cal/Mag?  Thank you for your help, I know you all have discussed this extensively, but I'm just wanting to make sure I'm clear on the amounts.
 
Scott


Posted By: Scott
Date Posted: Dec 20 2009 at 12:43am
One other thing, start now or after chemo?
Thanks, Scott


Posted By: unklez
Date Posted: Dec 20 2009 at 12:50am
Dear Scott,

Given that your wife is pregnant, please triple check with the obgyn AND oncologist before starting to follow recommendations from us non-qualified people. Since the Vitamin D test has been ordered, I think it would be prudent to wait for the results before starting to load up on any mineral or vitamin using a supplement. A few days should not make a difference in any case.

What I'd suggest you do in the meantime is read up on papers from Vitamin D council that Mainy points to and use them to educate your medical team on the difference between D3 and D2. Also know that 5K IU of D3 is available OTC on vitaminshoppe.com (and many other such places) at a reasonable price.




-------------
Wife Dx: Jul/09. Age: 37. Size: 3cm. BRCA: -ve. Lumpectomy: Aug/09. Micromet 1/9 node. Chemo Start: Sep/09. E5103. DD ACB-> DD Abraxane (Taxol reaction). Zometa (S0307). Canadian Fraction Rads.


Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Dec 28 2009 at 7:05pm
I wanted to give an update on my D3 levels.  I checked my D3 level a few weeks after finishing chemo and it was 19, very low.  My D3 level was never checked at DX.   I started taking D3 (between 5,000 to 6,000 iu) a day along with 2 Citracel and a multivitamin.  After about 8 weeks, my onc checked my D3 levels and it came back 47. 

Donna


-------------
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: Scott
Date Posted: Dec 29 2009 at 10:07am
We got my wifes Vit D tests back last week, her level was 34, after double checking with the obgyn she has started taking 3000IU daily. I'm having a hard time finding the calciun/mag supplement which he also was fine with, all the ones I seem to find also include zinc...is that the right one to take?
 
Scott


Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 29 2009 at 10:36am
A bit FYI for everyone. I've been the one taking the mega doses since June...8,000 IU a day along with the CalMag. My levels as of last Monday came back in at 60. Since the Vit Council suggests a range of 60-90 for cancer patients I was feelin pretty sassy.
 
BUT, my cholesterol levels had skyrocketed and my thryoid is going wrong direction as well. Since I would prefer not to just treat symptoms I have been on a massive Google search for possible answers and I have to say that the newest articles I'm finding point toward the massive doses of D as a contributor. There's been no studies, no research on this but there are rumblings going on. So I'll be going back to the 2,000 IU a day that Linus Pauling Institute recommends and see how that works.
 
Scott:  here's an article on why the zinc is a good one   http://www.nutrasanus.com/calcium-magnesium-zinc.html - http://www.nutrasanus.com/calcium-magnesium-zinc.html
 


-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Dec 29 2009 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by mainsailset mainsailset wrote:

A bit FYI for everyone. I've been the one taking the mega doses since June...8,000 IU a day along with the CalMag. My levels as of last Monday came back in at 60. Since the Vit Council suggests a range of 60-90 for cancer patients I was feelin pretty sassy.
 
BUT, my cholesterol levels had skyrocketed and my thryoid is going wrong direction as well. Since I would prefer not to just treat symptoms I have been on a massive Google search for possible answers and I have to say that the newest articles I'm finding point toward the massive doses of D as a contributor. There's been no studies, no research on this but there are rumblings going on. So I'll be going back to the 2,000 IU a day that Linus Pauling Institute recommends and see how that works.


Mainsailset,

I was also worried about my thyroid and cholesterol levels after chemo and how tx affected them.  I just recently had both checked and my thyroid was normal and cholesterol was 156. 

Donna


-------------
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 29 2009 at 7:16pm
Donna that's really good news. I've been substantially annoyed to discover that a common side effect of chemo is a poor thyroid performance. I just found one FDA notice about Sutent as of Oct. 08 and NO ONE MENTIONED IT TO ME as I was on Sutent at the time!
 
Once I started putting all this together I thought it important to get the word out so ladies could get themselves tested and start on the path toward healing their poor systems after all this treatment stuff.
 


-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: MsBliss
Date Posted: Dec 29 2009 at 7:17pm
Just wanted to add my layman's two cents....re multivitamins and zinc.  My naturopath said he would prefer that I don't take a multivitamin with any added copper or zinc.  His opinion is that extra copper as well as extra zinc are utilized by malignant cells; he wasn't concerned with dietary base levels, just adding supplemental forms.  Has anyone heard of this?


Posted By: Nancy
Date Posted: Dec 29 2009 at 7:56pm
Mainy,
 
Articles....and from all that I am reading lately, this is a good thing. This cholesterol "thing" is highly over rated. I read a post from a woman on another bc site that she had a "disabled thyroid which causes very high cholesterol".
 
http://www.medpedia.com/news_analysis/68-The-Heart-Scan-Blog/entries/5294-Vitamin-D-increased-my-cholesterol - http://www.medpedia.com/news_analysis/68-The-Heart-Scan-Blog/entries/5294-Vitamin-D-increased-my-cholesterol
 
http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/health_stories/vitamin_D_cholesterol/2009/08/24/251558.html - http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/health_stories/vitamin_D_cholesterol/2009/08/24/251558.html
 
http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=3252535263362294&size=largest - http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=3252535263362294&size=largest
 
http://heart-disease-news.com/cholesterol/high-cholesterol-levels-dont-cause-heart-disease-2/ - http://heart-disease-news.com/cholesterol/high-cholesterol-levels-dont-cause-heart-disease-2/
 
 


-------------
Nancy
DD Lori dx TNBC June 13,2007
Lumpectomy due to incorrect dx of a cyst
mastectomy July 6 2007
chemo ACT all 3 every 3 weeks 6 tx Aug-Nov
28 rads ended Jan 2008


Posted By: unklez
Date Posted: Dec 29 2009 at 8:35pm
Mainy,

Nancy's linked article says something important, ie total cholestrol is nowhere as important as the breakdown. Also, I am not sure a 10% variation is material. My total levels report anywhere from 150 to 250 and I have been having them tested every 6 months for 5 years!


-------------
Wife Dx: Jul/09. Age: 37. Size: 3cm. BRCA: -ve. Lumpectomy: Aug/09. Micromet 1/9 node. Chemo Start: Sep/09. E5103. DD ACB-> DD Abraxane (Taxol reaction). Zometa (S0307). Canadian Fraction Rads.


Posted By: unklez
Date Posted: Dec 29 2009 at 8:37pm
Ms. Bliss,

Yes, there is a school of thought that believes that copper contributes to tumor growth. In fact a Phase II trial at Weill Cornell in NYC has been testing precisely this hypothesis for the last 2 years using a compound called TM, which is known to deplete the copper in the body.



-------------
Wife Dx: Jul/09. Age: 37. Size: 3cm. BRCA: -ve. Lumpectomy: Aug/09. Micromet 1/9 node. Chemo Start: Sep/09. E5103. DD ACB-> DD Abraxane (Taxol reaction). Zometa (S0307). Canadian Fraction Rads.


Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Dec 29 2009 at 9:35pm
Unklez,

Any research about zinc contributing to tumor growth?

Donna


-------------
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: Nancy
Date Posted: Dec 29 2009 at 9:56pm
Copper and zinc
 
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/02/040212080505.htm - http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/02/040212080505.htm
 
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/62/17/4854 - http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/62/17/4854
 
zinc
 
Researchers at Pennsylvania State University have reported that glands in the breast have unique zinc requirements resulting from their need to transfer extraordinary amounts of zinc into milk during lactation. When nursing women's breasts are deficient in zinc, the result can be severe zinc deficiency in the infant, resulting in impaired growth and development. When zinc is deficient or not properly metabolized, breast cancer is often an additional outcome. Lack of zinc has been implicated not only in the initiation of breast cancer, but also in the transition, progression, and metastasis of the disease. When zinc is deficient, cellular functioning in the breast is compromised. (Genes and Nutrition, April 2)
 

The primary gene protecting women from breast cancer, p53, is thought to be the most frequently mutated or altered gene in the development of cancer. This gene requires zinc, and if it is missing, the gene becomes mutated, resulting in it becoming inactivated or suppressed. Dysfunction of p53 is well documented in the development of breast cancer, indicating that a zinc deficiency is a risk factor for breast cancer independent of the levels of boron, copper and calcium.

http://www.naturalnews.com/026321_zinc_cancer_selenium.html - http://www.naturalnews.com/026321_zinc_cancer_selenium.html


-------------
Nancy
DD Lori dx TNBC June 13,2007
Lumpectomy due to incorrect dx of a cyst
mastectomy July 6 2007
chemo ACT all 3 every 3 weeks 6 tx Aug-Nov
28 rads ended Jan 2008


Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Dec 29 2009 at 10:55pm
Nancy,

Once again thanks for the valuable information.  So my take is that we should avoid supplements (multivitamins) with copper.  And that zinc and selenium in our diets help fight bc.

Donna


-------------
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: Nancy
Date Posted: Dec 29 2009 at 11:22pm
Donna,
 
One more article and yes the date is 2000, but this is from The Life Extension Foundation. 
 
http://search.lef.org/cgi-src-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=0&page_id=1160&query=copper%20in%20the%20diet&hiword=COPPEN%20COPPERA%20COPPERS%20DIETA%20DIETBASED%20DIETER%20DIETERS%20DIETET%20DIETIN%20DIETING%20DIETL%20DIETNO%20DIETS%20copper%20diet%20in%20the%20 - http://search.lef.org/cgi-src-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=0&page_id=1160&query=copper%20in%20the%20diet&hiword=COPPEN%20COPPERA%20COPPERS%20DIETA%20DIETBASED%20DIETER%20DIETERS%20DIETET%20DIETIN%20DIETING%20DIETL%20DIETNO%20DIETS%20copper%20diet%20in%20the%20
 
A short paragraph from this link...
 
In a previous study, explains lead researcher Dr. George Brewer, professor of human genetics and internal medicine at the university, they tested the copper-lowering drug’s ability to prevent cancer development. The researchers examined its effects in 37 mice carrying the breast cancer gene (BRAC), by giving TM to 22 of the mice for 275 days, while comparing them to 15 controls. Results indicate that while TM didn’t destroy the cancer cells, which still appeared in clusters, they didn’t proceed to form tumors. The amount of copper reduction that Brewer is referring to, however, doesn’t result in outright deficiency. He says, “Cells have a lower copper requirement than tumors, so what we’re talking about is a chemical copper deficiency as opposed to a clinical copper deficiency.”


-------------
Nancy
DD Lori dx TNBC June 13,2007
Lumpectomy due to incorrect dx of a cyst
mastectomy July 6 2007
chemo ACT all 3 every 3 weeks 6 tx Aug-Nov
28 rads ended Jan 2008


Posted By: dmwolf
Date Posted: Dec 30 2009 at 1:18am
Tumors are hungry, right, so aren't they happy to eat most anything?    I wouldn't drop anything out of my diet on this basis (or take supplements either, for that matter, on the basis that whole foods are probably best for us).  Though I do wonder about extreme calorie restriction, since it can prolong lifespan in worms and mice.  Has anyone considered that? 
-Denise


-------------
DX 2/08@43 stg II IDC; gr2,0 nodes. Neoadj chemo, first ACx2 (fail) then CarboTaxotereX6(better). Lump, Rads done 11/08; Clodronate. False alarm queen: PetCT lung & TM marker. NED. PBM w/recon 9/10.


Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Dec 30 2009 at 7:57am
Denise,

I've seen a report on TV about people that severely limit their calorie intake in their diet in the hopes of achieving longevity.  They measured every gram of food and intake.  The problem I have is that these people will have to live their entire life doing this and not knowing if it really helps.  While I agree that limiting our calorie intake is good, along with exercising and a healthy lifestyle, extreme calorie restriction seems almost impossible to achieve over the long run.  Look at how many people start a diet and/or exercise program as part of their New Year's resolution only to go back to their old habits a few weeks later.  My two cents - Life is too short not to eat cake (and chocolate, wine, etc.).

Donna


-------------
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 30 2009 at 10:39am
Thanks Nancy and all for links and information. As I've been saying, the chemo wrecks havoc on our bodies, and in my case the Sutent impacted my thyroid. My cholesterol has gone up 10 pts for the tri, the LDL has gone up 107 pts, the HDL 12 pts and there's no doubt in my mind that the thyroid & the Vit D have both been involved.
All this with a low fat diet and hiking 2 hours a day! So all I'm saying is be aware of what's going on and that it will take your body time and care to achieve a balance again.
 


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dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: Scott
Date Posted: Dec 30 2009 at 10:50am

Zinc...or not to zinc, I'm beginning to get confused.

Scott


Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 30 2009 at 11:14am
Scott, my CalMag does not have zinc in it. It's my understanding that women with breast cancer often have a high level of zinc and copper. When in doubt, my resolve is just to go with the RDA that is already in your supplements. It is indeed frustrating to try and figure all this out, confusion is our companion in all this, but if you stick to an RDA level you'll be ok. Mine is the Carlson brand for what it's worth. Besides, once you figure the zinc out there's bound to be a whole line up of new supplement questions waiting for your attention. Wish I could help more.

-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: dmwolf
Date Posted: Dec 30 2009 at 12:39pm
Donna, I'm with you, a cake eater (and pie, and ice cream...) but I do wonder about the low low cal diets.  I've heard of these people too, and their lives seemed less than enviable to me as well.  They seemed to me to be anorexics with a rationalization.  But with cancer in the picture, my views are more malleable. 

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DX 2/08@43 stg II IDC; gr2,0 nodes. Neoadj chemo, first ACx2 (fail) then CarboTaxotereX6(better). Lump, Rads done 11/08; Clodronate. False alarm queen: PetCT lung & TM marker. NED. PBM w/recon 9/10.


Posted By: Scott
Date Posted: Dec 30 2009 at 1:29pm

Mainsailset, I'm with you, it does get confusing. Where do you buy your Carlson brand at? All the ones at walmart have the zinc in them.

Scott



Posted By: unklez
Date Posted: Dec 30 2009 at 1:35pm
Dear Donna,
I am afraid I don't have any readily available articles to support the theories on copper and zinc etc.
Regards,
 


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Wife Dx: Jul/09. Age: 37. Size: 3cm. BRCA: -ve. Lumpectomy: Aug/09. Micromet 1/9 node. Chemo Start: Sep/09. E5103. DD ACB-> DD Abraxane (Taxol reaction). Zometa (S0307). Canadian Fraction Rads.


Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Dec 30 2009 at 2:39pm
Scott, let's see, you're in Seattle area. I've been getting treatment in Mt. Vernon and was lucky enough to find a Super Supplements store (360) 757-4949 there with very knowledgeable people to help. You might go online and look up the Carlson brand, maybe RiteAid or a Super Supplements store....whatever you do, it helped me considerably to scout around and find a good supplement store and make friends with the folks behind the counter, they were my rocks of support when I was frothing at the mouth trying to figure stuff out!

-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: MsBliss
Date Posted: Dec 30 2009 at 4:14pm
Based on the articles Nancy referenced, I would say yes to zinc, but I don't know how much.  I would absolutely avoid supplemental copper though.

Originally posted by Scott Scott wrote:

Zinc...or not to zinc, I'm beginning to get confused.

Scott


Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Dec 30 2009 at 8:39pm
MSBliss,  I agree.  The article that Nancy gave the link to said Zinc and Selenium are the Minerals that fight breast cancer.

As far as copper goes, I looked at every multivitamin bottle at my drugstore today and I couldn't find one that did NOT include copper.  Does anyone know of a multivitamin brand that doesn't contain copper?

Denise,

I'm with you.  I'm trying even harder now to eat right and begin a good exercise program, but you have to have some fun in life.  I need my chocolate (dark of course - isn't that better for you?).  The best we can do is try and live a healthy life.  My grandmother is 101 and smoked until she was 81.  Drank her manhattan's and wine.  Drank coffee with loads of cream all day long instead of water.  Said water was for bathing, not drinking.  Go figure.



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DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: Autumn10182001
Date Posted: Dec 30 2009 at 9:58pm
my multi has 3 mg of copper and iron 6 mg.. which is suppose to feed cancer too.. can't find one without them...

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DX2/99 Stg I,ER+PR+ Chemo lumpectomy - Neg nodes,rads, tamox,femara. DX4/09, Stg IIB /III, TNBC IDC, Grade III, 2.5CM, mastectomy. 4AC DD,12 wkly taxol,BRAC1&2Neg, Right Mast 11/25/09


Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Dec 30 2009 at 10:21pm
Thanks Autumn.  I know anyone watching me at the drugstore reading the labels of all the multivitamins probably thought I was some weirdo.  I wonder if they make a multivitamin without copper. 

There are multivitamins without iron.  They are usually either the men's formula or the over 50 women's formula.  I checked those and they contain copper, but no iron.

Donna


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DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 9:04pm
Dr. Schreiber talks about Vitamin D is Anticancer book.  He says that many researchers now believe that Vit D3 contributes to slowing down all forms of cancer, at least in the early stages. 

"Specialists recommend . .  a daily intake of 1,000 to 5,000 IUs. . . Take care:  Vitamin D2, or ergocalciferol, should be avoided, since some specialists have reported potential toxicity from hypercalcemia."

He recommends measuring blood levels of D3 and calcium before supplementing and then about every three months after.


-------------
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: Scott
Date Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 11:03pm
We got my beautiful brides vitamin D test back last week, it was 34.9.."perfect" doc says.."not so fast there kemosabi" I say..we think at least 50 is important in the cancer battle...he says "how about 5000IU's a day"..."we'll take some, sign us up" I then say.
 
Seriously though the cal/mag issue is driving me freaking crazy..I cant find it anywhere without that freaking zinc, any new thoughts out there on this?
Scott


Posted By: MsBliss
Date Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 5:21am
I love that--about the D2.  That is the form my onc put me on for FOUR months after my diagnosis.  And that was only after they decided to tell me I was severely deficient, at 16, and well, maybe I should do something about that.  How much faith am I supposed to have in this system?


Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 7:43am
MsBliss,

I agree.  If it wasn't for this forum, I would never have learned about the importance of D3. 

Scott,

Most Calcium/Magnesium supplements contain Zinc.  You may be able to fine some online that don't have zinc.  Try checking out:  http://www.vitaminshoppe.com - http://www.vitaminshoppe.com

However, from reading previous posts, I understand Zinc to be important.  Please read Nancy's post:

http://forum.tnbcfoundation.org/vitamin-d3_topic5338_post45447.html?KW=zinc#45447 - http://forum.tnbcfoundation.org/vitamin-d3_topic5338_post45447.html?KW=zinc#45447


-------------
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 10:33am
Scott, I led you astray! Sorry, I had said I used the Carlson, but that's my Vit D3, the Cal-Mag I use is Country Life. I'm looking at the label and it only lists Calcium (1,000 mg in 2 tab) Phosphorus & Magnesium (500 mg). But as Donna said above, the zinc just might be a good thing!

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dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Mar 10 2010 at 12:10am
bump

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DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Mar 11 2010 at 7:56am
Thanks MSBliss for posting this on another thread.  It has some good information on D3.

http://www.nosurrenderbreastcancersurvivorforum.org/post?id=4530242 - http://www.nosurrenderbreastcancersurvivorforum.org/post?id=4530242


-------------
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: lrderedita
Date Posted: Mar 11 2010 at 8:29am
WOW. This opens a whole new world to me.

I've often wondered why there isn't more following of our (cancer survivors') environment, supplements, nutrition, etc, from our oncologists. All that I have ever heard them say is to avoid anti-oxidants during treatment.

But TNBC Foundation and Forum has it covered. This is such good information and has my full attention! Thanks Donna and all you fellow survivors :)

Lynne

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Age 46-5/06 lump ACT, Rads; 5/08 Rec bi-mast,Etopiside/ Cisplatin; 11/08 Rec Rads/ Gemzar(rad dose); 7/09 supraclav nodes Avastin/ Abraxane Sept09-current
Joyful in Christ through all circumstances!


Posted By: jodiel1
Date Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 8:26am
hello, just wanted some advise. my mum hasnt had her levels checked yet for vitimin d 3 but just wondered what was a good amount to take? and is liquid form the best? also does anyone no a good website to get vitimins?
thanks x


Posted By: mainsailset
Date Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 10:11am
Hi Jodie: I think you'll find many here have settled in on taking 2,000 IU a day. We cancerfolk need to have more than the average. My sister takes the liquid and has not had good luck with it bringing her levels up, I take the gel caps and they have done the job of bringing my levels up from 19 to 60.
 
Before she starts, have her tested. Since you're in the northern climes of England it's going to be a safe bet that she is deficient, and it has been well document that those who get breast cancer are in the highest percentage of having low levels.
 
I hesitate to send you a good link as I don't know what happens when things are shipped country to country...but I do know that Scotland and Britain both have been in the forefront of Vit D studies so hopefully there will be a good vitamin store you can drive to. I mention that because a good vitamin/supplement store with knowledgeable people are very helpful with many things. I also get a power Vit B liquid at mine that helps boost my energy when I need it.
 
Once she starts up on the D supplement it will take awhile for it to start to make a difference in how she feels, with me it took about 6 weeks. And it took about 6 months to get my levels up.
 
welcome to you and your mom both, please tell us more about your mum's treatment and how she's doing, we'll try and help with other things that may crop up as well.


-------------
dx 7/08 TN 14x6.5x5.5 cm tumor

3 Lymph nodes involved, Taxol/Sunitab+AC, 5/09 dbl masectomy, path 2mm tumor removed, lymphs all clear, RAD 32 finished 9/11/09. 9/28 CT clear 10/18/10 CT clear


Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 10:18am
Jodie,

I take 4,000 to 5,000 iu of D3 a day (gel cap).  Most women with bc have low levels at dx.  Mine was 19 after chemo and 47 after a few months of taking D3.  I'm getting my D3 levels tested next week and hope that it's even higher. 

It's important that you mom gets tested before supplementing so she knows her beginning levels.  Any website or healthfood/vitamam store that sells vitamins should offer D3.  You can google it and see if there are sites that pop up.  You want to make sure you're getting D3 and not D2.

Here's some information that was posted on the nosurrenderbreastcancersurvivorforum.org

What's New  (01/22/10): Vitamin D3 in Triple Negative Disease

New evidence suggests that the triple-negative breast cancer (TNBC) phenotype has the lowest average vitamin D level and the highest percentage of patients that are vitamin D deficient, strongly suggesting that low vitamin D levels are characteristic of the triple-negative phenotype. In a case series presented by Christa Rainvillle and colleagues,  patients with the more aggressive triple-negative phenotype had a mean serum vitamin D level of 20 ng/ml compared to a mean of 36 ng/ml for normal volunteers (Whittier, CA).  Furthermore, this may help to account for the fact African American women have the highest breast cancer specific mortality rates, the lowest serum levels of 25(OH)D, and the highest incidence of aggressive triple-negative or basal-like tumors (39%), as Lisa Carey and colleagues found in their Carolina Breast Cancer Study of race, breast cancer subtypes, and survival, and the Rainville findings further support that lack of vitamin D transport into cells may contribute to aggressive phenotypic expression (especially of TNBC, but possibly also, evidence suggests, of aggressive HER2+ and IBC disease). Therefore, my strong guidance for TNBC patients is to assure consistent (3 consecutive monthly readings) optimal (66+ ng/ml) Vitamin D3 levels, with periodic retesting (every 6 months).

 




-------------
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: 123Donna
Date Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 11:14am
Jodie,

Try this link:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_8?url=search-alias%3Ddrugstore&field-keywords=vitamin+d&sprefix=vitamin+ - http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_8?url=search-alias%3Ddrugstore&field-keywords=vitamin+d&sprefix=vitamin+


-------------
DX IDC TNBC 6/09 age 49, Stage 1,Grade 3, 1.5cm,0/5Nodes,KI-67 48%,BRCA-,6/09bi-mx, recon, T/C X4(9/09)
11/10 Recur IM node, Gem,Carb,Iniparib 12/10,MRI NED 2/11,IMRT Radsx40,CT NED11/13,MRI NED3/15



Posted By: jodiel1
Date Posted: Mar 20 2010 at 3:09pm

thanks very much for your replies.

My mum doesnt come on here but ive been trying to do some research for her.

She was dx aug 09 with grade 3 idc, she had three lumps one 1.8, 1.7 and 0.5. She had surgery sept and had her lymph nodes removed in october. She had 1 possitive out of 11.

She has had 3 fec and 2 taxol, just one more taxol to go. She has had an ok time with it although she does feel really down lately whitch is understandable.

I read some many different things about supplements and i have been looking to see the best ones to get for her. So do you think she should wait to be tested to start d3 or just take a low does now? I dont think she will see her oncologist till late april.

thank you for your time.



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