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Taxol versus AC??

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    Posted: Jan 16 2009 at 5:20am
Carli.
I had a neulasta shot after Taxol...many oncologists don't feel that giving that shot is necessary with Taxol, but, we are all different and I learned the hard way that I was one who needed the shot while on Taxol.
Exercise has been the biggest aid to my recovery, especially walking.  I go to an acupuncturist, LMT, PT, naturopath, have hydrotherapy, listen to my hypnosis tapes for health and healing...eat whole foods, avoid excess fat and sugar and alcohol.
Recoveing from breast cancer is a full time job!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 15 2009 at 7:38pm
I am having some challenges with Taxol. My weekly blood count was not great so we moved it to every 2 weeks. I am getting the neuopathy which has sharp pains. I also have achey all over pains which my PA calls "Taxol Flu," and has put me on steroids. Has anyone experienced this?
Also,  my Onc vetoed curcumin  because he says it would be counter productive as an antioxident.
With 2 more doses to go, I am starting to think about the uninsured recovery options needed to get the poison out. Does any one have suggestions?
 
Thanks!


Edited by Carli - Jan 15 2009 at 7:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ziggy0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 4:21pm
Hi, ladies.  Since the discussion is 'Taxol versus A-C' I will repeat what I've said in other places and hope that I'm not boring anybody too badly.  I think that, when possible (and in Cheryl's case with stage 3C it would not have been possible), neoadjuvant therapy--treating the tumor with chemotherapy before surgery--is something to consider because such treatment allows you to see whether or not the tumor is responding, by shrinking.  For unknown reasons the treatment doesn't always work, even when the tumor has never been exposed to that chemotherapeutic agent. 

In my case, the 2-cm tumor was responding very well to A-C x4 (no longer palpable) but my oncologist wanted to eradicate it with Taxol, which was planned for 12 planned weekly sessions.  During my third Taxol infusion I felt a hard lump where the tumor had been.  The next week my oncologist was out and his physician's assistant had me have another Taxol infusion, but in addition she ordered an ultrasound, which confirmed the tumor recurrence.  By then we were up against the holidays and it took a couple more weeks before I began another regimen, still neoadjuvantly.  And this one is working. 

Now that we know the tumor is responsive to this new regimen we will schedule surgery and, after some time for healing, will complete the remaining four cycles of gemcitabine/carboplatin therapy. 

For what it's worth, ladies, when you have a choice it might be good to make sure your therapy is working.  Why neoadjuvant therapy is not done more often is a mystery to me.

--jackie



Edited by ziggy0 - Jan 08 2009 at 4:22pm
Dx IDC 8/08/2008
TNBC stg 2 grd 3
T1c N1 M0, Ki67 97%
Neoadjuvant A-C, Taxol (failed), gemzar/carboplatin
Lumpectomy 1/09, completed G/C 4/24/09
0/6 nodes positive
Radiation 5 wks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cherseybear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 1:21pm
Hi Laura,
 
I finished the same regime that your on in early December.  For me, I'd say I had more adverse side effects with the Taxol.  Sorry.  I'm only passing this along in case you experience the same symptoms.
 
  After the first infusion, I broke out in a red, hot, itchy rash.  Breezed through the actual infusion and was fine for a couple of days.  Then boom.  The rash/redness first appeard on my butt and then my whole body got hot and itchy. Really itchy!  Lasted right through to the second treatment after which it subsided.  I had a complete allergic reaction but not till 48 hours after the infusion.  The docs didn't want to blame the Taxol but after I was tested for every disease known to man and had a skin biopsy they relented and agreed that my body didn't like the Taxol.  I did eventually get some cream and some oral medication that helped somewhat but I think my body eventually  just adjusted to the Taxol.
 
After the second infusion, the rash was pretty much gone at this point,  I got the worst sciatica pain imaginable.  I was in bed for 72 hours and ended up having to take oxycodeine (sp?) a narcotic for the pain.  Again, nobody wanted to blame the Taxol, including me (I just wanted to finish up the treatment at this point) but after an MRI showed no problems with my spine,  we had to chalk it up to the Taxol being very toxic for my body.
 
I got through the AC fairly well.  The usual stuff people talk about but nothing too serious.  I expected the Taxol to be a piece of cake but it turned out my body really didn't like. 
 
I hope you'e like the majority and not like me, but at least if you experience either of the two side effects above you'll know you're not alone.
 
Good Luck!
 
Cheryl
Dx. 03/07/08 - Masectomy & node dissection 22/07/08. IDC, 8/14 positive nodes, Grade 3/Stage 3C. Tx - 4DD AC then 4DD Taxol. Avastin - Beatrice Study. 30 Rads. Liver Mets - November '09.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doxia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 12:42am
Thumbs%20Down Oh forgot....suffered with hot flushes as well.....unfortunately this is still the case.
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Dx 27.12.07,Gr 3, IDC Lt breast 1cm (Primary Ca) & 2.5cm(Lymph Node)
Bi Lateral Mastectomy with expanders & Axcillary clearance 1/17+,Triple Neg.Tx 4 cycles AC chemo,12 wkly Taxol(28/7/0
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doxia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 12:33am
Hi everyone,
Hope everyone is travelling well with treatments/surgery/dx or simply enjoying life!
I, too, am from Australia and have done AC & Taxol in 2008.
I hated Censored(and this is tame LOL) AC with a passion, we just didn't get along, I had a horrid experience- especially emotionaly.
I had 12 weekly Taxol infusions, and for me it was way easier. I did suffer with side effects especially half way through my treament. I had back and leg pain, especially towards the evening (bizzare....) during the day it was not too bad, I literally could not move & felt like a 100 yr old woman, my nails blackened but none fell off, lost my eyelashes and eyebrows and was nauseas- no vomiting but survived with Maxalon tabs, this was mostly after my 5th infusion.
The good news was- I could return to work (part time) this was a lifesaver as I wasn't coping emotionally at home and my hair (head) started growing.
Good luck and I hope Taxol is kind to youHug
Cheers
Doxia Thumbs%20Up
 
 
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Dx 27.12.07,Gr 3, IDC Lt breast 1cm (Primary Ca) & 2.5cm(Lymph Node)
Bi Lateral Mastectomy with expanders & Axcillary clearance 1/17+,Triple Neg.Tx 4 cycles AC chemo,12 wkly Taxol(28/7/0
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yjennings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 07 2009 at 6:06pm
Hi
 
I had 4 rounds of AC and I had my second Taxol today.  Taxol has been easier than AC.  I had a few achy days and one itchy day and a little constipation but overall not too bad.  Because of my lack of appetite, I've lost some weight almost 20 pounds since my diagnosis.  I am drinking V8 Fusion (not the tomato drink) and Fuze which both taste really good and have a lot of vitamins and nutrients.  All my blood work has been really good.  I do take Neupogen shots after each treatment.    Good luck with your treatments.
38 yrs old dx 10/08
1.2 cm, Stage 1, Grade 3, IDC
neg node, lumpectomy
AC x 4
Taxol X 4 did 3 of 4 (canx last treatment due to neuropathy)
Radiation: 35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzanne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 01 2009 at 10:21pm
Hi!  I just wanted to throw in my two cents here.  I had  AC dose dense then switched to Taxol dose dense.  I thought it was easier to get through the Taxol, and I continued to teach school throughout my treatments.  I experienced some bone pain and had low cell counts, but it all was manageable.  During AC, I had a horrible metal taste in my mouth the whole time.  During Taxol, the taste switched to a more pleasant sourness. Everyone is different, but I hope this helps.
 
Happy New Year!
Suzanne
1/2/07 IDC, stage 1 (T1c), 1.56cm, lumpectomy 1/8/07, triple neg., grade 3, sentinel lymph node biopsy negative, BRCA 1/2 negative; 4 AC/4 Taxol dose dense, 30 rads 2/07-7/07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mainsailset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2008 at 7:34am
I started off with Taxol 1x a week and boosted with Sutent pill form daily in Sept. Finished 4 weeks ago and have now had 3 AC treatments.
 
As we all find out, the side effects don't all arrive on day one but keep layering on day after day, subtle sometimes and life threatening others.
Yep, I got the rash, named it after my ex-brother in law and it too went away.
 
Other side effects were loose joints, but no pain, lots of sinus issues with bloody nose etc., lots of heartburn, elevated BP, eyesight impaired and eyes were running all the time,  neuropathy...couldn't eat anything and lost 30 lbs. My tumor after 6 weeks had shrunk from a hard mass to a soft mass that was only 44% of it's original size. Important to note that my tumor was growing like a weed in spring so I have to give credit to the Taxol/Sutent that they not only stopped the growth but reversed it.
 
AC seems to be a different beast. My onc gave me almost 10 days off to recuperate inbetween the Tax & AC. That was certainly a good choice. My Most of the T/Sutent side effects have left town.
 
So far what has changed with the AC is that I only urinate at night, had bouts of constipation even though I'm drinking 3 qts of water a day. It has impacted my blood counts, anemic, low on white, low on Protein and calcium. After only 3 treatments I can't give a full AC account but I am so far finding it easier to tolerate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lroppe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 30 2008 at 9:47pm
Hi Chrissie,
Wow, we are really on the same path, aren't we!? Not only are we twins in chemo, my kids are also 6 and 8.5 years old!  I am technically a Stage II but the 1 lymph node with cancer was .22 mm -- considered a micrometastasis.  Still, it's a lymph positive, but it's just about as small a positive lymph node as you can find.  So, can we still be twins?!
Congrats on your last AC! I hope you are feeling ok today.  I get my infusions on Thursdays and Saturdays are actually the hardest day for me.  So, I am sending you healing vibes for the next few days.  We shall see about the Taxol.  I will do it, I trust my doc is giving me the best advice available, but I just am getting fatigued with this whole thing.  Even though I will be possibly having new side effects, maybe the change of scenery so to speak will at least lessen the emotion fatigue.  As far as physical fatigue, I, too, have been hit hard due to chemo-induced anemia.  I have my last AC tomorrow and will find out before infusion how bad the anemia has gotten re my counts. Hopefully, if it's really low, the problem can be solved with an injection and that's that. 
 
I struggled to defeat acute nausea with AC.  It was just a constant battle, even with the Emend and all sorts of other "premium" drugs.  I am hopeful that nausea is not on the menu with Taxol.
I too lost my hair on AC but my eyebrows and eyelashes have stuck around.  I am bracing for their departure with Taxol, but you never know. 
Chrissie, I am sure hoping we don't have any sort of allergic reaction.  That would be a bummer.  I am sending you my biggest hug.
 
Despite the whining in this post (which on rare occasion feels nice to do), I too feel like I am very strong and can handle this.  I have learned new strength through this whole experience, and I know I can move mountains.  I know you can, too.  I just won't necessarily sing "The hills are alive with the sound of music . . ." while I am moving those mountains!! Occasionally, I just get cranky.  But I always move forward and I am typically in good spirits.  I am glad to see you have discovered this perseverance as well.
 
I hope you will keep me posted by PM or post about your Taxol experience, and please know that I am rooting you on.

Much love,
Laura
Laura
lumpectomy 10/7/08 5 mm lump
Dx 10/10/08, age 37,
wider margin lumpectomy and node biopsy 10/21/08
IDC Stage 2, Grade 3
8 rounds/every 2 weeks (AC+T)started 11/20/08 + radiation
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChrissieD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 30 2008 at 2:17pm
Hi Laura -
 
I am a couple days ahead of you in treatment...I had my last AC yesterday and begin Taxol (X 4) in week after next.  I was lucky to have minimal side effects from AC (hair - gone; fatigue - came to stay due to chemo and chemo induced Anemia).  I have been told by all the nurses and 2 oncs in the office the side effects of taxol are differnt than AC.  Specifically potential for allergic reaction the day of infusion (but there is decadron and lots of benedryl for that); bone pain following infusion; and it is likely I will lose my eyebrows and eyelashes (although this could happen after the 4th treatment).  Some say maybe not as they have not even thinned with AC.  I am also seeing a naturopath who gave me a supplement to try to counteract the possible neuropathy (?) which can be caused by Taxol too.  He reasured though with the 4 infusions it is not likely to stick around even if it developes during treatment.  The nurses suggested B vitamins so I am going to start taking those as well.
 
I found with AC the fear leading up to treatment was not nearly what the treatment was - scary yes, but I am strong and can make it through.
 
You mentioned questioning whether you need Taxol - I went to Dana Farber for a 2nd opinion.  I am stage I but tnbc is aggressive and I wanted to be sure that I was doing everything I could to be done with this cancer thing and living to a ripe old age.  ACX4 with TaxolX4 was what the onc there told me was the protocol for neoadjuvant treatment.  My onc told me the same thing when I first saw him too.  I was told it was the big gun protocol to ensure any floating micromets left and did not find a home.  Do your research and talk with your doctor and be comfortable with the treatment plan.
 
Best of luck to you.  Here is to hoping Taxol is gentle and doable for us both!!
 
Chrissie 
39 from MA, Mom(8.5 and 6),
Lumpectomy IDC 1.5cm Stage I, Grade 3
ACx4 Taxolx4 dose dense started 11/17; Bi-lateral Mastectomy with expanders scheduled for 3/24/09
God is carrying me through !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nancy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2008 at 3:53pm
Hi there Sandra,
 
Anoher gal from down under!Clap We have a few gals on the site from Australia.
 
I am sorry to hear that you lost your mum. My mom was 87 when she passed in 2000. I can well see why you "hit the wall of depression".
 
We are glad that you have joined us, and there have been other gals who have had bad reactions to the Taxol. I remember when English Jan thought she was going to die while receiving the infusion. That's a pretty potent med. My daughter Lori had the Taxotere, and that was right along with the AC.
 
Have you checked out the TNBC News, Resouces & Tips forum? Pam posts links there every day which are so informative. You could have volumes of info and your doctors won't know what hit them next visitLOL
 
They say that many docs are frequent visitors on this site, and are amazed at the dialogue of the women hereWink Just wish they would post at times and tell us what they have leraned by readingBig%20smile
 
Please continue to post and I know that you will also have many suggestions for the new gals.
Hugs,
Nancy
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DD Lori dx TNBC June 13,2007
Lumpectomy due to incorrect dx of a cyst
mastectomy July 6 2007
chemo ACT all 3 every 3 weeks 6 tx Aug-Nov
28 rads ended Jan 2008
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Hi Pam,
Thank you for the response.  Yep the rash was pretty bad and itched for about two weeks.
 
The whole time of treatment seems like a blur and as though it was happening to someone else - I guess because I didn't have time to focus on me as I was the primary carer for my 87 year old mum who lived with me.
 
Mum passed away in August 2007 and I hit the wall of depression shortly thereafter. 
 
After counselling I feel okay and now have time to focus on me.  Glad I found this forum as it is very difficult to get any information about TNBC.  Next time I visit my doctors I will be armed with questions based on what I am learning here.
 
Regards
SandraTongue
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 28 2008 at 4:48pm
Tish, Laura and some of you new ones out there,
 
I like to post on occasion to let you know some hope and positive stories. I was dx before they were doing neoadjuvant tx and before they figured out TN.  I had only 4 tx of AC...that was protocol then...and it will be 8 years since I found my tumor, Jan. of 2001.
 
Tish, I too, was & still am a single parent and know the difficulties of remaining strong and keeping things normal for the kids. My youngest will graduate from high school this spring.
 
Good luck to you all.
kirby

dx Feb. 2001. Age 44
Lumpectomy

2cm. no nodes stage 1 grade 3

4 rnds AC, 35 rads
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trip2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 28 2008 at 4:11pm
Hi Daffodil and welcome.
 
My gosh I am sorry to hear about that rash you had with the Taxol!
Stage 2 2003
Stage 1 2007
BRCA 1+
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Thanks Cathy, that would be great! Also, thanks for your time.
Tish
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Hi Tisha,
 
Time helps with the worry, and it is definitely a process to get to where you accept that the worry not only doesn't help, it actually may hurt ... so for me I had to go through that cycle ... being worried that I was worried! 
 
In time, I came to believe that I was doing everything I could to prevent recurrence and that was all I could do.  You do get to a point where it isn't on your mind all the time ... but again, it takes time and it is a process.
 
As for not having bad side effects, my oncologist says it doesn't mean a thing.  Just means you are fortunate and are your body is handling it well. 
 
I'll separately look to private message you with my information locally.  If you want to chat more before your surgery let me know.
 
 
Cathy, Winter Park FL
Dx 12/05
3 tumors, triple negative, 6+CM, 0/13 nodes, stage 2b
Double mast
AC+T, dose dense
radiation
NED!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daffodil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 28 2008 at 11:48am
Hi Laura,
 
This is my first posting as I have just registered.  I am from Australia and had a lumpectomy in 2006 followed by AC, radiation and then moved on to Taxol.
Like you I was told that it was easier to cope with than AC, however, this was not so.  I was to have Taxol once a week over 12 weeks but managed only two lots.
After the second lot I developed a rash from head to toe and started to have heart palpitations. 
 
As there was no lymph node involvement with my TNBC I decided in consultation with the doctors to cease the Taxol treatment.  So far so good.
 
Regards
Daffodil
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Hi Cathy,
I noticed you live in Winter Park, Florida.  I live in Winter Garden.  I just finished Chemo and have my sirgery in 11 days-I have elcted to do a bilateral masectomy.  Then i have radiation.  I have been researching my diagnosis and I have become highly concerned with reoccurrance.  I was fine until this past month when I began not feeling like th etaxol was doing what it was supposed to since I didnt have really bad pain or side effects.  What is it that you do or know that helps calm you and not worry.  I am a single mom of a 10 and 7 year old and so want to be around for my kids.
Thanks for your time,
Tisha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ziggy0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 28 2008 at 8:59am
Hey Laura--After I posted last night I had some second thoughts, hoping I had not sounded too hysterically against Taxol.  Just because it did not work for me does not mean that it won't for you, and I certainly was not meaning to throw a scare into anyone--We've all had enough of those, I'm sure.  After all, a well-respected oncology doctor here in Colorado told me that 90% of tumors (whether or not they're TN I don't know) respond to Taxol. 

But even if he did mean that 90% of TNBCs respond to Taxol I would have to wonder what they are basing that statistic on, since the vast majority of tumors are removed before chemo with Taxol and, as in your case, most are either not available for testing or will not be tested (if there is a test) for responsiveness.  In other words if they base that statistic only on the ones that they know for sure did respond but in fact in most cases they don't really know, then how often are early recurrences actually enabled by resistance to one or more adjuvant chemo drugs? 

I have to wonder why more chemo is not done neoadjuvantly, so that we can see a response.  I realize that a lot of women just want to get that cancer cut out of them as fast as possible, but it is really nice to know that the orange-black invader is getting pummeled by the stuff that also pummels me! 

Of course by not having the lumpectomy when the tumor returned under Taxol I was also taking the chance that progression would continue unabated under gemcitabine/carboplatin.  There just aren't many easy answers. 

Best to you, Laura. 

--jackie

Dx IDC 8/08/2008
TNBC stg 2 grd 3
T1c N1 M0, Ki67 97%
Neoadjuvant A-C, Taxol (failed), gemzar/carboplatin
Lumpectomy 1/09, completed G/C 4/24/09
0/6 nodes positive
Radiation 5 wks
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